Author Topic: Trying to identify a town  (Read 10717 times)

Offline groom

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Re: Trying to identify a town
« Reply #9 on: Monday 27 April 15 18:22 BST (UK) »
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Quite close to Bury as the crow flies, but 7 miles by road. The obstacle to the direct route is the river Arun, but might have been a pedestrian ferry (rowboat) in those days.

From Wiki: "There was formerly a passenger ferry by rowing boat to Amberley on the east bank."

From all the places named  I think she must have been somewhere in West Sussex.
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Offline LizzieL

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Re: Trying to identify a town
« Reply #10 on: Monday 27 April 15 18:26 BST (UK) »
Thank you for reminding me of the will of Richard Eede. I have some notes on it from about 15 years ago. William Goodyer (my direct ancestor), James Parlett (who I think is husband of Susannah "aunt" Parlett) and Richard Skinner were witnesses. A Mr Skinner is mentioned as accompanying Sarah's uncle on one of his journeys.

I had thought about London, but it seems that the visitors just drop in for dinner and the places uncle goes on day or occasionally overnight trips are all in a relatively small area of West Sussex.

The record office had the diary listed as the work of Sarah Goodyer of Bury born 1791, but there is an entry saying her uncle died July 3rd 1774. A different uncle from the one who's comings and goings she recorded in 1802 and 1803.
I now think the entry about the Five Bells and a market by St Ann's church is in different handwriting, more of an adult hand. There also lists of groceries and prices which look like they were written by an adult. they are dated 1807.
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Lanark: Scott (soldier went to Jersey CI)
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott

Offline LizzieL

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Re: Trying to identify a town
« Reply #11 on: Monday 27 April 15 18:39 BST (UK) »
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Quite close to Bury as the crow flies, but 7 miles by road. The obstacle to the direct route is the river Arun, but might have been a pedestrian ferry (rowboat) in those days.

From Wiki: "There was formerly a passenger ferry by rowing boat to Amberley on the east bank."

From all the places named  I think she must have been somewhere in West Sussex.

That ferry was down past the church, my grandmother and her siblings used it to get to school in Amberley in the 1890's. Just a big rowing boat, I seem to remember the Sheppard family being mentioned as operating it. It was gone by the time I went to Bury with her in the 1960's but she showed me where it used to be. I went back about 10 years ago, but there were high banks built by the river, probably flood defences.
For a direct route between Bury and South Stoke, you would go through Houghton. A map shows a lane going to the river and a track on the opposite side to North Stoke and a road on to South Stoke, so likely a ferry there too.
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Lanark: Scott (soldier went to Jersey CI)
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott

Offline ShaunJ

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Re: Trying to identify a town
« Reply #12 on: Monday 27 April 15 20:06 BST (UK) »
Just another plug for the London theory, putting together Leicester Street, The Five Bells and Swallow Street:

From the  Daily Advertiser, June 11 1766

......Furniture, &c. of the late Mr. MICHAEL MORTON, Coal Merchant, at his late  Dwelling House in Leicester-Street, near the Five Bells, in Swallow-Street, Piccadilly
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Offline groom

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Re: Trying to identify a town
« Reply #13 on: Monday 27 April 15 20:25 BST (UK) »
How old was she when she wrote the diary - is there any mention of school?

Is she the Sarah Goodyer who married William Savage on the 21st December 1809 at Westbourne, Sussex? If so, she must have had some connection with there - perhaps her uncle lived in Chichester.

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Offline LizzieL

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Re: Trying to identify a town
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 28 April 15 07:56 BST (UK) »
According to the catalogue at the record office she was Sarah Goodyer of Bury born 1791. Most of the diary entries are dated between 1803 and 1806, recording visits made by her (unnamed) uncle and her aunt, usually separately. I suspect the uncle is travelling on business and the aunt (usually in the company of other ladies) might be visiting family or friends. She does not mention her parents or any siblings or a school. There are also entries saying that Mr ... or Mr and Mrs .... came to dine, so they were entertaining friends or business associates. There also odd entries about births and deaths, the earliest being 1774. Either the diary was started by someone else or Sarah was told about the event as it predates her supposed birth.
There are also records of books borrowed or lent to people - these are very faint, possibly written in pencil. Many of the later entries are just of grocery items purchased and the prices.

The London reference looks like it holds together. I think the two references to places (on the same page) are in a different hand and the phraseology is more adult.

The only Sarah who fits the birth year was the daughter of Clement Goodyer and Sarah (nee Young). Sarah Young died in 1795 and Clement remarried (another Sarah). I know of two children born to them William bapt 1798 and Ann bapt 1800. I believe daughter Ann was the one who gave birth to an illeg daughter in 1816. The bastardy bond says the child was born at the house of Clement Goodyer putative father Richard Hills.
If Sarah's father and half sister were still alive when she was writing the diary, I am surprised there is no mention of them.
There is a marriage of a Sarah Goodyer in Bury in 1812 to a Richard Humphries. The diary Sarah would be 21, so a possibility that it is her.

The diary was written in blank pages of Rider's British Merlin for the Year of our Lord God 1756...... with Notes of Husbandry, Fairs, Marts, High Roads, and Tables for many necessary Uses. Compiled  By Cardanus Rider.
I guess this is the sort of book which would be published annually, so might be around the house long before Sarah started writing in it, so some entries could be by someone older.

The diary was deposited at the Record office by Mrs. M.A. Killip, of Barnham, Sussex, 12 March 1979.
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Lanark: Scott (soldier went to Jersey CI)
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott

Offline LizzieL

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Re: Trying to identify a town
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 28 April 15 10:00 BST (UK) »
I have tried to trace Mrs Killip. I believe she was the Margaret Alice Killip whose death was registered Q1 1987 Chichester district. Her dob from the death record was 25 April 1908. I have been unable to find a marriage of a Margaret A(lice) to a Mr Killip and there are 76 Margaret Alice birth registrations in England and Wales in Q2 1908.

Added
Just realised there is a Margaret Alice Killip born in correct quarter in 1908, so perhaps the record office made an error about her marital status. And that is why no suitable marriage is coming up.
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Lanark: Scott (soldier went to Jersey CI)
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott

Offline LizzieL

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Re: Trying to identify a town
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 28 April 15 10:15 BST (UK) »
Free BMD gives Margaret Alice's parents as John Thomas Killip and Mary Bryan marriage reg 1903 Milton district Kent.
She isn't obviously looking like a family member from names and locations.

Could be a breakthrough!
From John Thomas Killip's place of birth in 1911, I have ruled him out as the connection.
Mary Bryan's parents are Henry Bryan and Kate Hodgkin, Henry born in Sutton, Sussex and Kate born in Wadhurst Sussex. Going back through censuses, Henry's parents are Samuel and Mary. Samuel is schoolmaster in Sutton. Mary his wife was born in Bury.
The only marriage of a Samuel Bryan in Chichester district around the right time would in Q4 1841 to either Mary Humphry or Mary Ann Leach. As no census has mary as Mary Ann or Mary A, I think Mary Humphry is more likely.
Particularly as there is a Sarah Goodyer marrying a Richard Robert Humphries in 1812, who I had linked tentatively with Sarah b 1791.
So just need to see whether Samuel did marry Mary Humphry (ies) and whether Sarah Goodyer had a daughter Mary.
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Lanark: Scott (soldier went to Jersey CI)
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott

Offline groom

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Re: Trying to identify a town
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 28 April 15 11:42 BST (UK) »
Don't know whether you have this but FamilySearch has

Sarah Goodyer baptism 20th June 1791 Bury parents Clement and Sarah. Sarah's maiden name was Young.

Then:

Burial Sarah Goodyer 17th June 1795 Bury wife of Clement Goodyer.  That could explain why your Sarah lived with her uncle and aunt.
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk