confusion concerning relationships on census

[sirsimon]

Hello

This is a large request, so I thank you for bearing it with patience

This is an entry from the 1881 census of the Arnold family of Neath. Lucy Arnold, daughter of Rees and Catherine Arnold is the head

Lucy Arnold    44
Margaret Arnold    33
Precilla Arnold    12
David Arnold    11
Susan Arnold    9
Margaret Ann Arnold    7
William Arnold    2

Lucy is living with her parents in 1871

Rees Arnold    79
Catherine Arnold    77
Lucy Arnold    34
Sellah Arnold    19

Sellah Arnold I have no idea whom she is, but I doubt she is Rees and Catherine's child considering they would be nearly 60 at the time of her birth

Lucy is absent in the 1861 census, but there is a Priscilla Arnold just like the 1881 census

Rees Arnold    68
Catherine Arnold    68
William Arnold    34
Priscilla Arnold    9

My confusion comes from two things, first checking the free bmd, there is no Sellah Arnold, this must be incorrectly transcribed as Sarah, but there still is no birth on the bmd, who is she? She cannot be Rees and Catherines.

Second, how are all the nieces and nephews in the 1881 census related to Lucy? While it states the relationship, the father is absent. There is a Mary Arnold of Cadoxton and she looks likely to be the mother, but she is a widower.

Now looking at the 1861 census, there is a Priscilla Arnold, daughter of William.

Now William, born 1828 and Lucy are siblings, however, are these nieces and nephews his children? The age for Priscilla between the census is nearly a decade, so they cannot be the same person and there is a death in 1889 for the Priscilla on the 1881 census

I would appreciate it if someone could help clear the confusion on whom the father is of the nieces and nephews of Lucy on the 1881 census.

my thanks

[lizdb]

I think Sellah is actually Priscilla - probably a bad attempt at spelling Cilla!


Arnold Children listed as nieces and nephews of Lucy are probably children of a brother(s) of hers, or illegit children of a sister.

As Rees and Catherine are alrrady in their 60's by your first sighting of them in 1861, you will probably need to go a lot further back to find what children they had other than Lucy, as they will be grown up and fled the nest by then.

[sirsimon]

thanks

They have had many children, however these nieces and nephews are likely the children of a brother, as they still have the surname Arnold, which would have been lost after marriage of a sister.

She only had three brothers, Edward, Thomas and William

William was born 1828, Edward, 1817 and Thomas, born 1830

The problem is that Arnold is relatively common in Neath and there are at least two to three possible entries for each of the brothers on each census alone, so its hard to tell where everyone is

There actually is no Priscilla, born in 1852 in Neath on the bmd, so that's odd

[jan57]

  The Wales  1861   census  original   has  Priscilla down as   granddaughter   so maybe  her birth  is   under   her  mothers name ??  There's  a few Priscillas'  born Neath   around  1852   I'm  looking  at  Free BMD

[Mabel Bagshawe]

My suggestion is Edward, given 1851 in Neath

Edward Arnolds    33
Priscilla Arnolds    31
Ann Arnolds    10
Cathrine Arnolds    5
Edwards Arnolds    3

HO107, 2463, 280, 7

There's a death of Priscilla Arnold in Q3 1851, which could tie in with young Priscilla’s birth

[Mabel Bagshawe]

theres a Jane arnold birth registered that quarter - maybe she had another name in the family once her mother died?

[jan57]

  Edward  Arnold  snr  born  1817  had  a  son Edward in 1848 , he married a Margaret Rees  in 1869

Marriages Jun 1869 

Arnold  Edward    Neath  11a 733   
REES  Margaret     Neath  11a 733 

1871    census  Neath 
Edward Arnold  22
 Margaret Arnold  23   born Neath 
 Pricila Arnold  14
 David Arnold  3 Months

 Tree  on Ancestry    has Edward and Margaret   having  3 more  children ,  Susan , b 1872, Margaret  Ann b 1874 and William   1879 ,   

Edward  Arnold  dies in 1st Q 1881  Neath   aged 32


 It  seems  that    Lucy  took in  her  widowed sister  in law  and her children   on the 1881 census

 Looking  at the  original  it  says  that  Margaret   is  Head  ( after   sister   has  been  crossed  out ) and a widow ,   there's  a  single     /   mark  between  Lucy and Margarets  name , which I believe  indicates  there's  2  households    at the  one address

[sirsimon]

thanks

Edward Arnold, born 1817 was the brother of Lucy, so it would make sense

Edward Snr looks like to have died in 1883

Lucy would therefore be a great aunt to the children in 1881

Priscilla died in 1889 aged 20, Susan married a man named Deciamus Peters, no idea where William and David went

[Mabel Bagshawe]

William is in Blaenhonddan  living with an Edward and Catherine Rees  (both b c1844), listed as an orphan in 1891, and as a nephew in 1901