Help with dechipering Will text 1856

[AMBLY]

Hi there
Can anyone help me dechipher some text on an 1856 Will record?
It is signed in by John Latta, being the brother & executor of the deceased.
It says: "(signed) John Latta __ . __ . ____ at Dumbarton".  I want to know what the text is (which looks like H.C. _____)  directly after the John's name ("at Dumbarton" follows the undechipered text but is not in the image) below:


Thanks!
Anne

[PrueM]

Could it be "W.C. Heele"?

[PrueM]

No, no - I think it's "Steele"!  IN fact I'm pretty sure.

[AMBLY]

Thanks Prue
I think you're rght - W.C.Steele - rats    I was hoping it might be some indictation of John's occupation "....at Dumbarton".  Perhaps the WC Steele was witnessing the signature of John, though in the context of the whole document, witnessess were ususally indicated at such.... but perhaps that particular section written by that particular clerk entering in the death record of the testator, didn't do that. I  know who John is in as much as he was brother of deceased William LATTA & who their parents were,  but after that I don't know for example,  who John married  if he did.

Thanks again for your help!
Anne

[PrueM]

No probs Anne, glad to be of help.
By the way, what nationality is the name Latta?  I've not heard it before.
Prue

[AMBLY]

Hi Prue

  I though I had an Italian great-granny when I first come across her LATTO name! She was from Fife.  LATTO & LATTA are variations of the name (also LATO, LATA, LATOE, LATTOW, LATTY, LATTIE and more ) going back generations, to the 1500-1600's  in Scotland, particularly Fife (predominantly LATTO) Ayr, Dunbarton, Renfrew (LATTA) and also in Ireland. The roots of the name is subject to much discussion, from Spanish, Moors, Italian... there are LATTA's that appear in records of Russians, Nordics, Italians.

The LATTA name has it's own website, that is very much concerned with the Irish-American connections:  http://www.latta.org/

I am interested more in the Scots side of it and my facination with the name has led to a One-Name type of study of them as my hobby - keeps me occupied  . Presently I am trying to tie up the Dumbarton LATTAs.

Cheers
Anne

[acorngen]

Now to throw the spanner in the works.

The surname is HALL not steele.  Look at the other H's in the text and you will see what I mean.  Also blow the picture up and you will see the line of the capital H appear between the two down strokes.  Either way a witnesses signature will not tell you the occupation of the testator ( that should be in the first couple of lines) and you will never be told the occupation of the witnesses who in many cases are clerks of the solicitor that prepared the will.

I also don't believe the first letter is W it looks like H also but could conceivably be a N it definately isn't a W there is one stroke missing.

So you know I have transcribed many wills for different people over different time periods and consider myself to be profficient in this

Rob

[PrueM]

Hi Rob,
I can see how it could conceivably be HALL but I am not convinced this is so.  There are no other capital Hs in the document (at least not in the little bit that we have to work from) and there is the question of the leading stroke to that letter, which looks to me like the bottom left of a letter S.  However I will admit that the secondary strokes on all the letters in the "signatures" seem to be extremely faded if not invisible, so it's possible that this is an H.  I'm not sure that the second letter is an "a".  The second and third strokes in the name are very strongly similar and it would be unusual if this was an "a".  The other "a"s in the "signatures are quite strongly formed, except for this one.

The first letter is definitely a W.  Of that I'm sure.  The strokes are not missing, they are just invisible in this scan, and possibly in the original document, due to fading.  There would be an upstroke (invisible) then the strong downstroke (visible) then another invisible up, and another visible down, and lastly another invisible up.

I stand by my diagnosis that the name is Steele, but am willing to be proved wrong with good evidence! 

Prue

[AMBLY]

Hi Prue , and Rob
Thanks again for your help! This is my first ever will  and I think I have been lucky to get one that actually is in a very good hand.  Maybe I have been remiss in not understanding enough to explain properly, that this is an extraction of a will preceded by admission to the books of the Commissiary Court, the will itself, then the  depositon of the death and finally the "Proven" bit.

The general text of the document is written in what I believe is "Secretary Hand" and  the trancriptions of (I suppose?) original signatures have been written in more of a "Copperplate" style

Looking at the document again - and it's 2 sheets of paper that contains the end of one will record, the whole of the LATTA one and the start of another -  I think now it's all written (extracted?) by the same person.  The first initial I do now think is W - the capital H's and N's of people's signatures elsewhere are entirely different .
The surname- at first I thought perhaps HALL too. But I was wavering  - I have to say I think it might be STEELE now, and the strokes are faint.

I know the testators occupation (Steamboat master) as Rob says, this is  in the first sentence of the will - it was the John LATTA , deposing to the Court on the event of the death of his brother in whom I was interested, hoping to learn his occupation which may have let me match him up to other John LATTA data I have on file.  I was led to the hope by the form of the text ie: "
John Latta --- --- ----- at Dumbarton", thinking perhaps incorrectly that  "at Dumbarton" would have followed John's name, and then again after W C's name, if it were two people.   W C Steele I really do think it is now!

I am satisfied it's not an occupation for John anyway, but happy to send you more of the document by email if you want to satisfy yourself one way or t'other, just PM me the address 

Sorry for the ramble    Now, if you want, I have another bit of it that  I am really just curious about:

What is the part of that word in this text that reads:
" Mrs Janet Latta wife of Robert Falconer ???ozier in Glasgow....."  Is it, again, an occupation?

(Falconer is split in the two lines). I know he was surname FALCONER ( he died before the testator and by the time the will was proved Janet was "wife of Andrew MacTear) theretofore Falconer widow..."

Cheers
Anne