Any ideas please with my Jackson Family

[BevStimpson]

Richard Matthew Jackson born 1839 Southwark, London, married Isabella Parsons born 07 Jun 1835 in Tower Hamlets, Middlesex 25 Dec 1858 St Mary, Newington.

They had (that I can find, or that survived childhood) Richard Henry Jackson 1859 – 1912, Elizabeth Jackson 1866 – ?, William Jackson 1868 – 1915, Amos Jackson 1870 – 1945, Alfred Jackson 1875 – 1935 (my great grandfather) - the youngest two born in Manchester.

In 1881, the census lists the 2 older children living with their grandparents Richard and Elizabeth Jackson at 19 Bk Preston Street, Manchester Isabella and her son William aged 14 were pauper inmates at Crumpsall Workhouse, and Amos and Alfred were pauper inmates at Swinton Industrial school. All the family were in the tobacco pipe making business.  I am presuming Richard Matthew had died. although his death is a mystery I haven't been able to solve. Any ideas as to his death would be greatly appreciated.

The second mystery is Isabella's death. I have her in 1891 at 44 Sycamore Street, New Cross, Manchester, as head of household, age 52 yrs and living with her two youngest sons.

I decided to try a broad range burial search on Manchester's council website and found (unfortunately) a few possibilities, I narrowed it down by area and cross referencing with freebmd
to  Jun 1892  age 53   and corresponding burial 28/06/1892   Isabella Jackson   Manchester General Cemetery (close enough to where she lived, although i would have thought Phillips Park was nearer) - do you think my logic stands up?

I can't find Richard Matthew on any census after 1871, and a search of the cemeteries is not helping. He is named on Alfred's birth certificate, so he was still alive in July 1875.

a search for deaths brings up
   Surname    First name(s)    Age    District    Vol    Page
Deaths Sep 1875     JACKSON    Richard    70    Manchester    8d   188
Deaths Jun 1877     JACKSON    Richard    58    Manchester    8d   138
Deaths Jun 1883     Jackson    Richard Arthur    0    Manchester    8d   118
Deaths Sep 1883     JACKSON    Richard    40    Manchester    8d   52
Deaths Dec 1885     Jackson    Richard    1    Manchester    8d   151
Deaths Sep 1888     JACKSON    Richard Henry    1    Manchester    8d   147
Deaths Mar 1891     Jackson    Richard Henry    0    Manchester    8d   187
Deaths Dec 1893     Jackson    Richard    74    Manchester    8d   157

ruling out infant deaths it seems like the only possibility is
Sep 1883     JACKSON    Richard    40    Manchester - but then why can't I find him on a census? and why did his family end up in the workhouse?

[groom]

Sep 1883     JACKSON    Richard    40    Manchester - but then why can't I find him on a census? and why did his family end up in the workhouse?

Could he be in another workhouse listed with just initials?

[CaroleW]

www.lancashirebmd.org.uk shows Richard's death in the Central sub registration district 

http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/manchester.html

[CereUK]

You have missed one death that is a possible.

Jackson  Richard  33  Manchester  8d 191 Deaths Jun 1871 

Deducting the age from the year of death it matches with Richard Matthew Jackson.  His death is probably the reason for them ending up in the Workhouse, you can obtain the workhouse records which would tell you why.

regards

CereUK

[groom]

If that's him, it throws the cat amongst the pigeons as " Alfred Jackson 1875" is Bev's great grandfather and that would mean that Richard wasn't his father.

[BevStimpson]

If that's him, it throws the cat amongst the pigeons as " Alfred Jackson 1875" is Bev's great grandfather and that would mean that Richard wasn't his father.

Thanks everyone, he is on the 1871 census, and I did consider illegitimacy, but he is on Alfred's birth certificate 😳 also, I can't find record of Isabella searching the workhouse records other than on the 1881 census.

You have missed one death that is a possible.

Jackson  Richard  33  Manchester  8d 191 Deaths Jun 1871 

Deducting the age from the year of death it matches with Richard Matthew Jackson.  His death is probably the reason for them ending up in the Workhouse, you can obtain the workhouse records which would tell you why.

Also, no records in the workhouse search for any of the children between 1871 and 1881, they two oldest obviously went to live with grandparents because they had work, the younger ones went with Isabella.
I'm now wondering why I can't find her on the workhouse records.

With regards to illegitimacy, two of his older brothers descendants have both told me that photos of their great grandfathers and my photo of Alfred could be identical twins, so they must bear a likeness to the same or both parents 😀

[BevStimpson]

Alfred's birth certificate shows Richard Jackson as father, and I have just asked for help transcribing the age on Richard and Isabellas wedding certificate. I believe it says Isabella is "full" age, Richard looks like "minor" - if I am correct, it would alter the age at death on the search!

[groom]

I believe it says Isabella is "full" age, Richard looks like "minor" - if I am correct, it would alter the age at death on the search!

I've looked at the certificate and it does say minor.

Richard Matthew Jackson born 1839 Southwark, London, married Isabella Parsons born 07 Jun 1835 in Tower Hamlets, Middlesex 25 Dec 1858 St Mary, Newington.

Why? If they married in 1858 he would have been born after 1837, and you have him born 1839, so he was 19 when he married. Remember people were counted as minors for  marriage then until 21, not 18 as now.

[Pheno]

'Thanks everyone, he is on the 1871 census, and I did consider illegitimacy, but he is on Alfred's birth certificate 😳 also, I can't find record of Isabella searching the workhouse records other than on the 1881 census.

You have missed one death that is a possible.

Jackson  Richard  33  Manchester  8d 191 Deaths Jun 1871 

Deducting the age from the year of death it matches with Richard Matthew Jackson.  His death is probably the reason for them ending up in the Workhouse, you can obtain the workhouse records which would tell you why'.

The 1871 census was taken on 2 April.  The June quarter registration 1871 found means death was likely to have occurred in April, May or June so quite possible that he was alive on 2 April 1871 to be recorded on the census but died after that in either April, May or June.

Sorry haven't got the quote function working quite right!

Pheno