How to access Irish wills in National Archives?

[brianoleary85]

Hello all, I have two questions about accessing wills/probate papers in the National Archives in Dublin.

I've previously accessed one or two relatively recent wills in the National Archives, so I knew I had to give advance notice if I wanted to see the original probate papers which had gone through the courts. I also knew that because of the Four Courts explosion in 1922 that only the more recent material was left.

However, on the National Archives website they say that the following has survived: "Original wills and administration papers lodged in the Principal Registry since 1904 and in most District Registries since 1900". As I'm going this Thursday, I emailed ahead a couple of days ago to ask to see two grants of administration, one from 1917 and another from 1968, but was told that while I could see the latter, the grants of administration from 1917 have not survived.

I'm rather confused, as the website suggests that only the "Original wills and administration papers lodged in the Principal Registry [i.e. Four Courts in Dublin]" from before 1904 had been destroyed. Or is there another reason the 1917 papers have not survived?

Second question, I also wish to have a look at a few "Will Books" and "Grant Books" which are said to contain transcripts of most wills and grants from the various District Registries (outside of Dublin) since 1858. Can I order these on the day in the National Archives? How do I put in an order for one, is it a case of just writing "Grant Book, Mullingar, 1879" on the order sheet?

(This is the website I've been getting my information on what's available in the National Archives: http://www.nationalarchives.ie/genealogy1/genealogy-records/wills-testamentary-records/ )

Many thanks in advance!

[hallmark]

Yes a lot went up in smoke but a worldwide appeal for copies of Wills etc was very successful and a lot of stuff was sent in!

Everything is a matter of luck! The Will for one of mine was burnt, no copy exists BUT I went to the Registry of Wills and Deeds in Blackhall Place where the inheritors registered themselves as the inheritors of the estate, detailed who got what etc... so basically it was the result of what was in the Will.

The 4 sons and 1 daughter were named plus what they got! Date of Death, address etc.. these go all the way back to 1708.

[brianoleary85]

Thanks Hallmark, I'll certainly call in to see the Registry of Deeds while I'm up there. I think my people were probably a little too poor to be lodging wills in there, but I'll give it a shot anyway.

Would still be very interested to learn exactly what original wills and administration papers are available in the National Archives, and also how to order Grant and Will books.

[hallmark]

Yes I think the best way is to go there in person as there is a lot of misinformation about them all being burned etc etc... For one of mine that is there and classified as a Will... it is only 2 line entry that so and so of wherever died and tax may be payable!

While luckily I didn't order it, someone checked it for me and luckily it named of "of...  and ...." which helped me tie a lot of stuff together as it proved they were of the X and Y townlands mentioned and same families.

A massive amount was lodged after the fire! It's not only Wills and Deeds but also leases registered at Blackhall so if you have names/dates then no harm checking the Index for them for that year and possibly next..

[brianoleary85]

Will do, already have my list of people and townlands drawn up to search the indexes. Hopefully something turns up!

[Elwyn Soutter]

The wills lodged at the principal registry in Dublin pre 1900 were destroyed in the 1922 fire. However not all wills were lodged there. There were provincial registries in Belfast, Armagh, Londonderry, Cork and elsewhere where people also applied for probate. The provincial probate offices sent the original will and related papers to Dublin but kept local transcripts. Most of those local transcripts survive. So there are copies for many wills lodged in provincial probate offices pre 1900.

In addition, many solicitors and big estates kept duplicate copies of wills. (Ie Original to Principal Probate Office, duplicate copy for client’s file.). Many of these duplicate copies have subsequently been sent to National Archives in Dublin (or PRONI in Belfast), so they turn up there under general searches, as opposed to from probate file searches.

So it is possible to find some pre 1900 wills, but a lot are gone for good. There’s no getting away from that.

[hallmark]

Will do, already have my list of people and townlands drawn up to search the indexes. Hopefully something turns up!

Most Wills were probated quickly but in some cases you may have to follow for a few years after in Will/Deeds.. at least you seem organized!

[brianoleary85]

The wills lodged at the principal registry in Dublin pre 1900 were destroyed in the 1922 fire.

Thanks for your thoughts, and that is what I thought too, but I'm being told by the National Archives that there aren't any 1917 grants of admin from the principal registry which have survived. I'd like to know what exactly is available. There seems to be remarkably little accurate information available online about what exactly is available and how to access the Irish wills/probate papers and various substitutes which have survived.

The provincial probate offices sent the original will and related papers to Dublin but kept local transcripts. Most of those local transcripts survive. So there are copies for many wills lodged in provincial probate offices pre 1900.

Yes, these are the transcripts that I mentioned and am interested in ordering, the Will Books and Grant Books.

[brianoleary85]

Most Wills were probated quickly but in some cases you may have to follow for a few years after in Will/Deeds.. at least you seem organized!

Thanks Yes, just in my own family research looking at the Will Calendars available online I came across a will which was proved in the Four Courts only 21 years after the individual's death, and I'm sure this isn't completely uncommon. But seeing others proved in the courts only 3-4 years after a death doesn't seem all that uncommon either.

Also, I'll be dropping into the Four Courts itself when in Dublin this week to view a 2003 will, apparently they only transfer to the National Archives after 20 years. Costs €10 to inspect it at the court, but I'm hoping it'll help me locate some living relatives and open up a whole branch of the family I've been having trouble tracking down!