Robert Miller and Jane Low

[tab11]

Hi Kevin/Shopbooth,

Please could you clarify your maternal line leading to Robert Miller/Jane Low...

Thanks
Tab11

[shopbooth]

Hi Tab11

Certainly ... census research and certificates point to

Me
Mam
James Trewick Miller b. 1915 (Grandfather)
William Miller b. 1891 (Great Grandfather)
Henry Miller b. 1858
Jane Miller b. 1836
William Miller b. 1811
Robert Miller b. 1768
John Miller b. 1725  ...?

[robtaylor]

Just so you know here's mine -
Stan Taylor .. me dad
Sarah Miller .. Grandmother
Allen Miller .. Great grandad
Allen Miller .. Great great Grandad
Helen/Ellen Miller GGG grandmother
Robert Millar the bookbinder.

[tab11]

Hi again Rob and Kevin,

Thanks for posting your respective trees.  Kevin, I'm not sure of any of your entries and now I'm questioning whether I've gone down the correct line to Robert Miller and Jane Low.  We were a  little stuck at William Miller 1811 born Edinburgh as there were 2 options and as the result of an 1841 census we thought this was the correct line.  How sure are you that you have the right line?  I don't mean to sound disrespectful but we've being trying to reach a conclusion for many years.
Rob, can you add some dates please...
Thanks
Tab 11

[shopbooth]

Hi Tab11

No problem at all.

It does seem to fall into place for me, though I am a relative novice with limited time for research.  I've relied on rootschat help quite a bit to piece things together but I'm fairly confident of tracing the right line.

I had originally stopped at Jane Miller, single mother in Tynemouth Workhouse giving birth to Henry in 1858 and Henry's birth and marriage certificates tally with this, as does Jane's later marriage certificate to Thomas McGlauglin.

I struggled for some time to find a Jane Miller born in Camperdown (which she consistently puts i census as place of birth) in 1836-9 and followed a few lines which I dismissed with some confidence.

The name switch from Hazlerigg to Camperdown in 1840s meant that finding a William and Jane in 1841 with a 5 year old Jane seemed a firm possibility.

The only thing I lack is a mention of William as a Coal Miner, as the wedding certificate in 1867 (Jane Miller - Thomas McGlaughlin) has him as a Labourer. 
In the 1861 census he is still head of the family as a Coal Miner, dying that same year - so I'm surprised he is not recorded on certificate as William Miller (deceased), Coal Miner.  However, she is recorded as Spinster and she has certainly borne one child, perhaps two and possibly been married, so everything might have been deliberately vague as she marries into the Roman Catholic church??

I am awaiting certificates relating to her possible marriage to Thomas Bates in 1855 and birth of a son which might give a few pointers...
If this is my Jane, then it looks like her mother would have been Ann Miller who married William in 1835 and died before the 1841 census leading us back to that family in Hazlerigg making her half sister to Ellen Surtees and William's later children with Isabella.

Hope that makes sense, but maybe I've got my wires crossed somewhere...

[robtaylor]

Hello Kevin, that's an interesting tree, I think I'd like to see the paper trail once you receive the certificates. I notice there is a Thomas Bates at Hazelrigg 1841, and a Thomas Bates married Jane Miller 24/12/1855 at Christchurch, they posted a notice in the North and South Shields Gazette, so I wonder where Thomas went, there doesn't seem to be any children from the marriage. Have you seen Henry's baptism yet? there may be a clue in that or in Tynemouth workhouse records which was just up the road from Christchurch.
I am surprised William is described as a labourer, in my experience they have always been recorded as miners but there's always a first time -could be because she wasn't close to her family.

[robtaylor]

Hello Kevin, here's some info on a Thomas Bates 1841 recorded at Hazelrigg with his family father Thomas, mother Mary age 45, son John age 15, Thomas age 10. 1851 Recorded at Seaton Delaval, Thomas age 20 born at Gosforth with family mother Mary a widow age 55, John 25 and others all born Gosforth.
 Cowpen 1861 Thomas Bates married born 1831 Gosforth, wife Jane 25 born Earsdon. son Thomas born Earsdon age 4, son Joseph age 6mths born Horton.
Cowpen 1871 Thomas born Kenton, wife Jane born Hartley. Kenton was in Gosforth parish and Hartley is in Earsdon.
It seems this couple were together from 1861 to 71, I suspect there are two different Ann Millers one the daughter of William a labourer and one the daughter of William the coalminer. Not sure how you can nail that down though. You could try baptism records at Earsdon to try to find Jane Miller.

[robtaylor]

Hello Kevin, here's some info on a Thomas Bates 1841 recorded at Hazelrigg with his family father Thomas, mother Mary age 45, son John age 15, Thomas age 10. 1851 Recorded at Seaton Delaval, Thomas age 20 born at Gosforth with family mother Mary a widow age 55, John 25 and others all born Gosforth.
 Cowpen 1861 Thomas Bates married born 1831 Gosforth, wife Jane 25 born Earsdon. son Thomas born Earsdon age 4, son Joseph age 6mths born Horton.
Cowpen 1871 Thomas born Kenton, wife Jane born Hartley. Kenton was in Gosforth parish and Hartley is in Earsdon.
It seems this couple were together from 1861 to 71, I suspect there are two different Jane Millers Not sure how you can nail that down though. You could try baptism records at Earsdon to try to find Jane Miller.

[robtaylor]

Just to muddy the waters a bit more here's some info. picked up yesterday concerning Jane Miller, Henry Miller and Thomas Bates.
23/12/1855 Jane Miller married Thomas Bates at Christchurch, Tynemouth, both are described as of this parish, and of full age. Jane is the daughter of William Miller profession is given as miner. Thomas is the son of Thomas Bates also a miner.
Thomas and Jane can be followed in different census living in the Cowpen/Bebside area of Blyth 1861 - 1911. Thomas was born at Kenton in Gosforth parish, Jane gives place of birth as Hartley, Earsdon parish. I can't find a baptism for Jane at Earsdon nor can I find a census entry in 1841 or 1851.

Henry Miller was born 7/6/1858 at Tynemouth workhouse and Baptised at Christchurch, Tynemouth 30/7/1858 Jane is described as a single woman. By 1861 she is again in Newcastle with Henry describing her birthplace as West Moor and in later census as Camperdown.

Is it just coincidence that Thomas Bates also lived in Camperdown also known as Hazelrigg. Camperdown is a two street hamlet in 1890. in 1841 there are about 420 people, most involved in the coal industry, probably working at Burradon pit.

So two Jane Millers - one the daughter of William a coalminer, born at Hartley married to Thomas Bates, one the daughter of William a labourer, with  son Henry and soon to Marry Thomas McLaughlin, birthplace consistently given as West Moor or Camperdown.

I think Henry's mother is the daughter of William and Ann Surtees but until a positive link is found it will always be open to question.