Author Topic: Advice/information please if possible  (Read 9866 times)

Offline Tickettyboo

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,834
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Advice/information please if possible
« on: Wednesday 17 June 15 19:58 BST (UK) »
Short version:

Could anyone tell me if a photocopy birth cert from Ireland GRO,(sometime in the 1880s) will be from the original register of births or is it a copy of a copy kind of thing?
If the GRO hold a copy of  copy,  can anyone tell me if local registrars hold the original registers and, if so, do they also do a photocopy version?

Longer version if anyone can advise:

I have been researching a lady who was born in Tipperary sometime in the 1880s. Family moved to England c1900. English 1901 census, has her age as being born c1884, English 1911 census is consistent with that.


She married in 1918, gave her age as 29, which means she was born c1889. I know that sometimes we ladies shave a few years off our ages and her hubby was born 1891 so was younger than her so that may be relevant.

rootsireland.ie shows me a civil registration record transcription for a child of the right name, right parents, right place - born 21st Jan 1883

BUT in 1917, not long before she married she must have applied for and got a birth cert from Ireland. Its dated 17 Sep 1917 and says its a certified  copy of  entry 301  in the register book of births, District of Kilcooley, in the Union of Urlingford and its word for word the same as the 1883 transcript on rootsireland EXCEPT for the birth year which says 1889.

I get the feeling that its likely to be an error by whoever did the copy certificate in 1917 when she applied, even registrars make transcription errors :-) and when it arrived she must have thought Great! six years younger at a stroke, I'll take that :-)

So, I have this anomaly and I am not sure whether the GRO would be my best bet or if I should be asking a local registrar for a photocopy of an entry (if, indeed, they do such things) and if its the local registrar how would I go about that?

Sorry if that was longwinded and hard to follow but its frying my brain!

Boo


Offline hallmark

  • ~
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • ****
  • Posts: 17,525
    • View Profile
Re: Advice/information please if possible
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 17 June 15 20:47 BST (UK) »
Where do you live?

If in Ireland you can get them at your local Reg office for all of Ireland! They are scans of the actual registers and just get a photocopy of it!
Give a man a record and you feed him for a day.
Teach a man to research, and you feed him for a lifetime.

Offline Tickettyboo

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,834
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Advice/information please if possible
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 17 June 15 21:15 BST (UK) »
Thanks, but I am in Derbyshire, England so its a bit of a trek for me to get to a local registrar.

I know I can apply to the GRO by post, for a photocopy - I've done that before. Maybe I should just do that and see what comes back. Its really bugging me and I want to see if I can pin it down one way or the other. Haven't been able to find a baptism (RC) record yet to cross reference with.

Boo

Offline hallmark

  • ~
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • ****
  • Posts: 17,525
    • View Profile
Re: Advice/information please if possible
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 17 June 15 21:25 BST (UK) »
Ahh OK, it is a photocopy of the register, as you probably know.

If you had kin in ireland they can get them local wherever they live now instead of GRO office, pretty handy!!
Give a man a record and you feed him for a day.
Teach a man to research, and you feed him for a lifetime.


Offline hallmark

  • ~
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • ****
  • Posts: 17,525
    • View Profile
Re: Advice/information please if possible
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 17 June 15 21:34 BST (UK) »
 word for word the same as the 1883 transcript on rootsireland EXCEPT for the birth year which says 1889........  see     http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=670189.0
Give a man a record and you feed him for a day.
Teach a man to research, and you feed him for a lifetime.

Offline Tickettyboo

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,834
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Advice/information please if possible
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 17 June 15 22:01 BST (UK) »
word for word the same as the 1883 transcript on rootsireland EXCEPT for the birth year which says 1889........  see     http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=670189.0


I take your point, but I also checked the GRO index, via Family Search and  the civil records search on Irish Genealogy.ie. Both of those sites only have a GRO index record for this name (and variants)  in the right district in 1883, no other entry between 1880-1890. There is definitely a discrepancy somewhere and the only way I am going to find out where is to get this photocopy.

The application form now printed and completed and I have put a note in explaining the problem I am trying to suss out. I'll post it off in the morning.

Fingers crossed I will solve the mystery in a couple of weeks :-)

Boo

Offline hallmark

  • ~
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • ****
  • Posts: 17,525
    • View Profile
Re: Advice/information please if possible
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 17 June 15 22:13 BST (UK) »
All you can do for now!
Give a man a record and you feed him for a day.
Teach a man to research, and you feed him for a lifetime.

Offline taramcdsmall

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,394
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Advice/information please if possible
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 17 June 15 22:35 BST (UK) »
Hi There

I'm just wondering ~

1. Does it matter ? I suppose it depends on how closely related they are !

2. Is the date the exact same, ie date and month ?

3. I would trust rootsireland LESS than an actual cert that the lady in question had gotten herself. 

Rootsireland is great but I have come across a lot of errors on it.

4. Do you want to give us the persons name to see what / when there are registers to correspond with it ?

Tara

Offline aghadowey

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 51,357
    • View Profile
Re: Advice/information please if possible
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 17 June 15 22:55 BST (UK) »
There is another explanation for the later birthdate-
BUT in 1917, not long before she married she must have applied for and got a birth cert from Ireland. Its dated 17 Sep 1917 and says its a certified  copy of  entry 301  in the register book of births, District of Kilcooley, in the Union of Urlingford and its word for word the same as the 1883 transcript on rootsireland EXCEPT for the birth year which says 1889.

Have come across a similar thing at least 3 times and in each case (at least 2 birth and 1 marriage) the certificates were carefully altered to make it seem that-
1) parents married sooner (1st child actually born a few months after wedding) so marriage was 1 year earlier than actual record
2) child born later (year added so looked like parents married 9+ months when child born)
3) birthdate altered by several years so that bride appeared younger than actual age
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!