New name. William Dale. No tree? Any help.

[rob g]

Hi All. I have been a rootschatter. For many years and have had some fantastic help. Sadly it seems I am not the man I thought I was..lol. To try and keep it simple. My ancestor Peter Mitchell. B.Bolton lancs 1831. Died. Clithero 1897. Father.Jesse Mitchell. B.Liverpool 1779. Mother phobe Mitchell. Nee Rothwell. B.1796. Wed 1811 Eccles.   Was in fact the son of William Dale. B.1798 Cheshire. he was phobe Mitchells  brother in law. They are together in 1841census in old hall st Bolton.Peter Mitchell and his sister Catherine. Are down as William Dales. Children. Jesse Mitchell. Phobes husband.did not die till 1847. In Bolton. She later Wed William Dale. Manchester cathedral.1848.  Illegally. Classed as incest till 1907. In 1851 census Peter is with Catherine. And still called by Dale. In 1852.in bury he weds Mary leather. But as a Mitchell.? witness Catherine Mitchell. Probably because he didn't want to be down as illegitimate.and cause problems for his. mother. With the legality of her marriage..phew..anyway back to William Dale. Born Cheshire 1798. Maybe in smallwood? Or astonbury. They were potter's/ earthenware dealers. So his parents may be.the same.  On William & phobe. 1848 Wedding cert.his father is down as Peter Dale.his mother could be Ann?  As I have just found this info.and have spent years researching the wrong tree. Any help would be appreciated from the Cheshire crew. Sorry to be so long winded. Yours hopefully.  Rob..

[rolnora]

William Dale baptised 18 March 1798 son of Peter and Ann.
Their residence was Smallwood which was at that time a township in the Parish of Astbury rather than Astonbury.
St Mary was the parish church for Astbury.   

[suzard]

. They are together in 1841census in old hall st Bolton.Peter Mitchell and his sister Catherine. Are down as William Dales. Children. Jesse Mitchell. Phobes husband.did not die till 1847.

First of all - before I look into it further - 1841 census does not give relationships -so this census cannot be counted as giving definate evidence that they were the children of William Dale


Suz

[groom]

I'm just wondering how you know for certain that he is the son of William Dale? It wasn't unusual for young children to adopt the name of a step father after their mother remarried or lived with someone. Infact I discovered when doing my brother in law's tree that his great great grandfather had taken the name of his step grandfather! Peter was born 10 years before the 1841 census and 17 years before his mother "married" William.

[rolnora]

I can only see two marriages for a Peter Dale to Ann

16 Feb 1790 Liverpool St Anne
Peter Dale and Ann Rice.
Peter was a Painter residence Liverpool Ann's address was Walton
One of the witnesses was Thomas Dale and they were married by licence.

13 June 1796 Manchester, St Mary, St Denys and St George
Peter Dale of Leveshulme Weaver and Ann Rice of Rusholme
Both marriages can be found on Ancestry marriages
The Liverpool one is also on Lancsopc.
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk

[rolnora]

Rob has another post for William Dale it's on the Lancashire board.

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01fkw/

[rosie99]

Hi Rob
What real evidence do you have that Peter is not the son of Phoebe and Jessie.    Do you have his baptism.

1841 census does not give relationships.    Are you sure that Phoebe has not just moved in with William after the birth of Catherine. It was not uncommon for families who 'joined together' appear as one surname on census.

William Dale 40
Phoebe 45
John 20
Ann 18
Peter 10
Catherine 8

Do you have baptisms for the older children

Who does Peter name as his father when he marries. 

[groom]

In 1852.in bury he weds Mary leather. But as a Mitchell.? witness Catherine Mitchell. Probably because he didn't want to be down as illegitimate.and cause problems for his. mother.

I wonder if you are reading too much into this just based on information from the census? He could easily have just been known as Dale whilst growing up, but then reverted to his legal name when an adult and on the marriage certificate. What did he call himself after his marriage?

[suzard]

there is this baptism
Bolton le Moors
Page 11 of register
Baptism officiating minister Thos Airey
22 May 1831
Peter Dale
son of William & Phebe
address Gt Bolton
father's occupation Potter

I haven't found Catherine's baptism

Have you found Jesse Mitchell on 1841 census??

Suz