Lusitania mystery - told Great Grandfather died on ship, but he's not on records

[TreesieA]

Just one more point that I remembered last night. It won't help trace Frederick, but does add weight to the story. I know we have a sailors cap ribbon somewhere that my mother gave to me and I'm pretty confident that it was for the Lusitania. Will try and find it, as that will add weight to the information that he worked on the Lusitania.

[Ruskie]

Apologies if this has already been mentioned, but he may have worked on it prior to it being torpedoed, rather than dying on it? 

[avm228]

Thanks AVM, I'm not aware of him being a carpenter, but obviously doesn't meant it's not true.

I suggest you look up the 1911 census entry for him as previously suggested by others.  We can't provide information from that census under Rootschat's rules, but his occupation and location will be relevant.

Re the tobacco/newsagent thing - Frederick's father Fred was a grocer in South Shields in 1901.  Maybe the business records you have found were for Fred senior rather than Fred junior.

There are merchant seaman records for Fred senior (born 1848 Bridport) in the 1870s, but I am not sure what evidence you have for Fred junior being a sailor.

Obviously there would have been a need for carpenters/joiners in the shipbuilding industry (the moves to Belfast and Glasgow would be consistent with involvement in shipbuilding) and for maintenance purposes also on vessels in service.

[larkspur]

 "Frederick snr a Master Mariner residing at Beatrice House, Stanhope Road,  South Shields in 1891?
Census ref RG12/4157/57/27
Keyboard86"
"There are merchant seaman records for Fred senior (born 1848 Bridport) in the 1870s, but I am not sure what evidence you have for Fred junior being a sailor."


You may have the father and son mixed up. Family stories can go that way 

[avm228]

Fred J Kerslake (i.e. Fred junior) was recorded as having been "in the trade" for 8 years when he joined the carpenters' and joiners' union in South Shields on 2 June 1902 aged 23 yrs 9 months.

So not much time for him to have done something else first.

[larkspur]

Just to sum up, the senior Fred* and his census history, His wife Frances was born Guernsey.....

1881 Rotherhithe----Mariner
RG11/579/115 p 59

1891 Durham---Master Mariner.
RG12/ 4157/57 p 27

1901 Durham---Grocer.
RG13/4736/120 p 12

[TreesieA]

"Frederick snr a Master Mariner residing at Beatrice House, Stanhope Road,  South Shields in 1891?
Census ref RG12/4157/57/27
Keyboard86"
"There are merchant seaman records for Fred senior (born 1848 Bridport) in the 1870s, but I am not sure what evidence you have for Fred junior being a sailor."

You may have the father and son mixed up. Family stories can go that way 

The info I have re Fred jnr being a sailor is from what my Nan said. She would have been old enough when he is said to have died to remember his occupation. Also, I should imagine in those days it wouldn't have been at all unusual for a son to do the same job as his father. Other info she provided has proven to tie in with records, so should imagine his occupation is correct. However, I also appreciate things can easily get confused over time and passed down through generations.

[TreesieA]

"Fredk Jas Keeslake"

Fredck Jas Keeslake

Have looked at this record and it does sound feasible, especially when you consider that what I think is the death record for my Grandmother's brother Sydney James (Fred jnr's son) is also registered in Doncaster in 2011.

[larkspur]

From what AVM posted
"Fred J Kerslake (i.e. Fred junior) was recorded as having been "in the trade" for 8 years when he joined the carpenters' and joiners' union in South Shields on 2 June 1902 aged 23 yrs 9 months.
So not much time for him to have done something else first."

He would have been 15 years and 9 months when he started his trade (Joiner) on the 1911 he is a joiner. So unless he went to sea as a joiner, when did he have the time to " become a sailor".
We have all been here  I am afraid 
"The info I have re Fred jnr being a sailor is from what my Nan said. She would have been old enough when he is said to have died to remember his occupation. "
I have many many family stories- and yes, from people who knew the subject- to know how muddled up they become with time, a snippet of fact is usually there, but lots of embelishing over the years. Work with the facts and not the stories.....
Frederick senior- master mariner
Frederick junior- joiner.