Author Topic: Marriage licence, Llanfrynach, 1834 - Thomas DAVIES to Mary DAVIES  (Read 30963 times)

Offline MarMnkly

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Re: Marriage licence, Llanfrynach, 1834 - Thomas DAVIES to Mary DAVIES
« Reply #63 on: Friday 07 August 15 13:31 BST (UK) »
Hi Deirdre
no relation, but to add to the overall picture; Roger Powell (one of the tenants) is the son of Howell Powell, and sibling of William, Mary, and Ann.
The will of Howell Powell is on the NLW's website.  http://hdl.handle.net/10107/310095.
Mar  ;D
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Massey, Munkley, Powell, Thompson, Thurkettle

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Offline Deirdre784

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Re: Marriage licence, Llanfrynach, 1834 - Thomas DAVIES to Mary DAVIES
« Reply #64 on: Friday 07 August 15 16:00 BST (UK) »
Thanks Mar, fascinating things you find. I can't find any wills on the NLW website (just been looking for one on my side down in Pembrokeshire :().

We've been to Llanfrynach today :) ; lovely sunny day, had gorgeous lunch at the White Swan (outside on the terrace), and a wander around. Gave up trying to look for any graves because, as you warned, the 'old' graves around the walls were under about 4 feet of weeds etc, and just about impenetrable. Will no doubt visit again.   
 
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....

Offline MarMnkly

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Re: Marriage licence, Llanfrynach, 1834 - Thomas DAVIES to Mary DAVIES
« Reply #65 on: Sunday 09 August 15 13:03 BST (UK) »
Hi Deirdre  :)
so glad you managed to get to Llanfrynach and a meal in your ancestors Inn.
It is such a pretty place, and you made the best of the weather too!
I expect the graves will have to be an Autumn or winter visit?
Will wait for the update on the marriage licence for Thomas and Mary, let's hope it gives some more clues
Some areas have fantastic parish records don't they (many online too!). Did yours stay in the same area, or move around?
Yes, they tended to stay around Brecon, but many moved down into the valleys to work in the pits, as was commonplace in the late 19thC.
Mar
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Massey, Munkley, Powell, Thompson, Thurkettle

Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Deirdre784

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Re: Marriage licence, Llanfrynach, 1834 - Thomas DAVIES to Mary DAVIES
« Reply #66 on: Sunday 09 August 15 14:57 BST (UK) »
It was one of the best meals we've had in ages :). The whole area was quiet and relaxing; a lovely day out. I did ask the waitress if she knew anything about the history of the inn itself but sadly she didn't, and the manager wasn't on duty. 

The licence seems to be taking ages :(; paid for by card on 30 July. Hopefully it will arrive this week.

I've ordered the 2nd Thomas Davies's will now (Mary's 2nd husband); will be interesting to see what it says and hopefully it may explain a bit more. Mary didn't leave a will but Thomas was granted letters of administration on 12 April 1865 (nearly 14 years after she died and 2 weeks before he was granted probate on her first husband's estate ::)). 

I've found a few more bits from the google books, but nothing really new. Hope to ring the Law Society tomorrow to see if they can help with the whole transcript. 

As with your family, my husband's ancestors moved down from Brecon (and Merthyr) to the valleys, many of them to Cilfynydd, and the pits. Thomas (1837)'s son was a blacksmith / shoer in the pit, and his son a coal hewer.
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....


Offline Deirdre784

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Re: Marriage licence, Llanfrynach, 1834 - Thomas DAVIES to Mary DAVIES
« Reply #67 on: Tuesday 11 August 15 19:45 BST (UK) »
Still no licence from the nlw - getting impatient now!!!!

But I've found the full report of Davies v Davies  :) nothing exciting to solve any mysteries unfortunately, and I need to Google some terms to more fully understand what it was about  ;D
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....

Offline Deirdre784

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Re: Marriage licence, Llanfrynach, 1834 - Thomas DAVIES to Mary DAVIES
« Reply #68 on: Monday 17 August 15 20:28 BST (UK) »
Licence finally received, but sadly it doesn't solve anything ::)

Just what appears to be a basic licence saying that Thomas Davies appeared in person, and made oath that he is a 'widower' (so presumably the parish register is wrong ???) and that he and Mary, both of Llanfrynach, are over 21 and free to marry. No other names, or occupation etc. Looks like the same signature of Thos Davies from the parish registers.

Also had some info from Powys archives, though again doesn't really get me far. Only the info so far, images to follow now that I've paid :).

No baptism for Thomas, though if his age was right at his burial, he was born 2 years before the baptism registers began, though Powys tell me that there may be BTs at the NLW.
 
Marriage record of Thomas Davies and Margaret Thomas, on 13 May 1796, both of the parish, by banns. Witnesses: Owen William and Elizabeth Davies (this could be interesting if Owen William is Owen William Davies, will wait and see).

Only 1 child it seems.... another Mary, baptised on 4 June 1797, daughter of Thomas and Margaret, but sadly she was buried on 7 May 1798.

Had the will of Thomas Davies too, leaving nearly everything to son William, with quarterly payments of £20 to his widow, and £100 each to his son and daughter. He had a life assurance policy and money in the bank ::).  He gave the '...dwelling house, garden and premises situated at Llanfrynach in the occupation of Elizabeth Evans, widow ???' to son William, and furniture, plates, linens, china and all other household effects to wife Margaret.

Three strange things..... no mention of the White Swan ???, Thomas and Margaret appear to be living at Trallong in 1881 (and Margaret died there in 1901), yet the will says he died in Llanfrynach ???, and there were 2 executors named, son William and Howel Davies of Pannan, but Howel 'renounced the probate and execution thereof'  ::)   

Edited to add: just realised that there must have been another property (ie the farm at Trallong) otherwise where was Margaret going to live if this Elizabeth Evans was in the property? When William died in 1893 and his wife in 1894, they were resident at the 'Brickhouse'.
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....

Offline Deirdre784

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Re: Marriage licence, Llanfrynach, 1834 - Thomas DAVIES to Mary DAVIES
« Reply #69 on: Friday 28 August 15 20:50 BST (UK) »
I've been in touch with the NLW and have had a reply re baptisms for Thomas Davies before 1776 (when Powys records start). There were two ::)

23 February 1774 Thomas the son of Rees David (sp?) and Mary
1 January 1775 Thomas son of David Davies and Elizabeth.

In the parish register for the marriage there was only one:
23 November 1764 marriage of Rees Davies to Mary Williams.

Given that Thomas had a daughter Mary (1797-1798) by his first wife and two by his 2nd wife (1835-1838 and 1838-?) the Rees - Mary marriage looks a good bet. There are also possible burials for them in Llanfrynach (abode village) in 1821 (Rees, b around 1735) and Mary (in 1825, b around 1731, aged 94!) but nothing for David and Elizabeth.

There are also other burials for Davies children born around the same time as Thomas, inc a Rees (1780-1853). Maybe there was an earlier Rees too if they'd been married since 1764.

Not sure what else I can do to confirm Thomas' parents (if Rees was a blacksmith it would have helped ;D) so this may well be the end of the line, unless anyone has any other ideas.

Deirdre

CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....

Offline MarMnkly

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Re: Marriage licence, Llanfrynach, 1834 - Thomas DAVIES to Mary DAVIES
« Reply #70 on: Sunday 30 August 15 12:20 BST (UK) »
Hi Deirdre
fantastic that you've had some record detail back from NLW  ;D
I can see the marriage bann online in FindMyPast for Rees Davies and Mary Williams (both of Llanfrynach parish), and burials in 1821 and 1825 at ripe old ages in Llanfrynach.
So definitely in the play for being Thomas' parents.

I had a look at NLW wills online, and even though you cant see a burial for David and Elizabeth Davies (parents of 1775 Thomas), maybe this David's will (I hope as wife is Elizabeth) dated 18th July 1789 says that he is of Llanfrynach - so not sure where he is buried?  http://hdl.handle.net/10107/49609
Sadly no mention of being a blacksmith in this will  :(   - think he was a yeoman farmer leaving goods to the value of £11.

Tantalizingly, Davies' as blacksmiths get everywhere -  there was a David Davies blacksmith buried on 17 June 1789 in Llanfihangel Talyllyn (3.5 miles away) !!

Mar  :)
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Massey, Munkley, Powell, Thompson, Thurkettle

Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Deirdre784

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Re: Marriage licence, Llanfrynach, 1834 - Thomas DAVIES to Mary DAVIES
« Reply #71 on: Sunday 30 August 15 13:14 BST (UK) »
Hi Mar (lovely bank holiday weekend weather as usual!).

I have no luck with wills so i don't suppose you can find one for Rees can you? Looks like David - and maybe Elizabeth - died before the Llanfrynach burials start on FindMyPast so parents could be either :-\
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....