James Gillies

[loobylooayr]

Oooft, you have been a busy lady Forfarian.
I had just discovered Robert Gillies with the Stephen family at Mains of Coxton and was pretty excited when I managed to decipher Rothes as his place of birth.
I'm still looking for him on 1861 Census but no luck yet - I don't think he's on it as a Gillies.
But I think Forfarian's finds and deductions are excellent and would agree with the scenario re. Joseph and Robert's births. Both look to be born out of wedlock - not uncommon and both use their fathers names.

I'll keep having a look at 1861,

Looby

[Annette7]

I'm with you, Forfarian - I too believe Robert's parents were unmarried and that his father was the Joseph Gillies who died in 1858.   

But which Ann/Anne Asher was his mother especially with absence of baptism for Robert?

Been trying to follow certain ladies of this name who appear in 1841 and 1851 census to see what happened to them.   Also, if they had sisters (who'd probably married themselves) who'd taken in young Robert.   If only we could locate him in 1861 it might give us some answers but no joy for me yet.

Another thing I noticed was that one of Robert's sons was named Alexander Grigor Gillies - one of the Ann's I'm looking at had a sister Margaret who possibly was the one who married a John Grigor i6/2/1852 St. Andrews Lhanbryd - was hoping when I found them on 1861 they'd have a Robert with them but no joy there.   Worth a shot though.

So frustrating, isn't it?

Annette

[Forfarian]

I have just found in Drainie in 1861
John Gillion (sic FreeCEN), 59 labourer, born Speymouth
Ann Mcbain Gillion, wife, 41, born England
William Gillion, son, 20, joiner, born Drainie.
No Robert, aged 6, as you would expect. So did this Robert G die in infancy? In which case there would be no point in looking for him in the SP deaths registers.

1871: Ann Gillies, widow, 51, annuitant, born Norwich.
1881: Ann Gillies, widow, 61, born England

[loobylooayr]

I have just found in Drainie in 1861
John Gillion (sic FreeCEN), 59 labourer, born Speymouth
Ann Mcbain Gillion, wife, 41, born England
William Gillion, son, 20, joiner, born Drainie.
No Robert, aged 6, as you would expect. So did this Robert G die in infancy? In which case there would be no point in looking for him in the SP deaths registers.

1871: Ann Gillies, widow, 51, annuitant, born Norwich.
1881: Ann Gillies, widow, 61, born England

I agree Forfarian, Looks like that Robert died very young.

I am liking the look of the Ann Asher age 17  who is living with her grandmother Isobel Gow age 77 at St. Andrew Llanbryde on the 1851 Census. Isobel is widowed but hag been married to John Asher. There are at least 2 sons Alexander born 1800 and John born 1803. Looks like they may still be in the area. I have drawn a blank discovering the fate of this Ann ??

Looby

 

[Forfarian]

Yes, I have noted that 17-year-old Ann as well, and I can't find her in 1861. Perhaps she died giving birth to Robert?

Still doesn't explain why we can't find Robert in 1861, or why he says he was born in Aberdeenshire/Buchan.

[loobylooayr]

Yes, I have noted that 17-year-old Ann as well, and I can't find her in 1861. Perhaps she died giving birth to Robert?

Still doesn't explain why we can't find Robert in 1861, or why he says he was born in Aberdeenshire/Buchan.

Yes I'm puzzled by the fact that Robert is (so far) missing - especially as if his age on the 1871 Census , the subsequent 1881 Census and his marriage certificate are to be believed he was born 1856/1857 and therefore there should be a Statutory Birth record    Mind you I have a similar problem with a GGGgrandfather of mine who was also illegitmate born circa 1856 possibly with the name Smith in Glasgow  - I have never been able to definitely find his birth cert !
Added - although I do have a candidate.

Looby

[isobelw]

An Anne Asher married a George Wilson in 1860 in Gamrie. They appear to be living in Falkland Fife in 1861 with a newborn daughter Jane. They had a number of children born in Fife in subsequent years. Anne was age 29 and had been born in Hillside, Banffshire. Perhaps a match for the 1851 Ann already mentioned.
Isobel

[Forfarian]

Perhaps, but there is a 19-year-old Ann Asher, born in Gamrie, visiting the household of Alexander Asher in Gamrie in 1851. In 1841 she is in the same household so could be a daughter.

There's an Ann Asher marrying Thomas Fraser in 1856. This couple were in Forres in 1871, Ann shown as born in Duffus, aged 52, but as there is a child, Elizabeth, born 1869, I suspect an error in Ann's age. There is a 17-year-old Ann Asher in Duffus in 1851 as well as the 17-year-old in St Andrews-Lhanbryd.

[loobylooayr]

There is an Ann Asher aged 26 born Urquhart Morayshire on the 1861 Census at Elgin.
She is unmarried and working as a domestic servant in the household of a MacDonald family.

3 Reidhaven Street Elgin.


 MACDONALD   James   Head    34   Teacher Of English M A    Morayshire - Elgin       
   MACDONALD   Margaret   Wife    33   Teacher's Wife    Morayshire - Forres       
   MACDONALD   James   Son    2       Morayshire - Elgin       
   MACDONALD   Robert   Son    8m       Morayshire - Elgin       
   ASHER   Ann   Servant     26   Domestic Servant    Morayshire - Urquhart       
   MCDONALD   Jane   Servant   15   Domestic Servant    Morayshire - Elgin   

Think this looks like the Ann Asher from St Andrew Llanbryde in 1851.

Looby