Author Topic: Harrison and Caraher - Ballyclare, Doagh Grange  (Read 5534 times)

Offline Verlorian

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 8
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Harrison and Caraher - Ballyclare, Doagh Grange
« on: Tuesday 01 September 15 04:25 BST (UK) »
Hello All,

  My Ggrandparents were William Harrison and Eleanor (Ellen) Caraher.  I just recently found their marriage certificate dated 29 January 1879, in Ballyclare, Doagh Grange. It lists their fathers occupations as grocer/publican and block printer respectively. I am not very familiar with the Valuation, should they still be counted if they held these kinds of jobs?

This was the first breakthrough I've had in a very long time and don't know where to go from here.

I'd appreciate any suggestions.
Thank you

Offline scotmum

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,494
  • A tree full of life, a life full of branches!
    • View Profile
Re: Harrison and Caraher - Ballyclare, Doagh Grange
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 01 September 15 16:49 BST (UK) »
What were the forename of the respective fathers? Neither surname appears in the area at time of Griffiths http://failteromhat.com/griffiths/antrim/grangeofdoagh.php . They may appear in later valuation revisions http://www.proni.gov.uk/index/search_the_archives/val12b.htm .

Is this Ellen in 1901 http://www.rootschat.com/links/01g1d/ ?


"Trees without roots fall over!"
 
""People who never look backward to their ancestors will never look forward to posterity." - Edmund Burke

Don't just wait for the storm to pass, learn to dance in the rain.

“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Be curious and however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at.”  Stephen Hawking

In a world where you can be anything, be kind .

Offline kingskerswell

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,577
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Harrison and Caraher - Ballyclare, Doagh Grange
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 01 September 15 17:01 BST (UK) »
Hi,
   This couple also had a ceremony in Antrim Civil Registrars office on the same date. The fathers' names were John Harrison and Henry Caraher.

Regards
Stewart, Irwin, Morrison, Haslett, Murrell - Dungiven area Co. Londonderry
Browne, Barrett -Co.Armagh
Neil, Smyth _Co. Antrim

Offline scotmum

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,494
  • A tree full of life, a life full of branches!
    • View Profile
Re: Harrison and Caraher - Ballyclare, Doagh Grange
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 01 September 15 18:18 BST (UK) »
If same family group, this record suggests the mother was Scottish https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FC51-ZFN
"Trees without roots fall over!"
 
""People who never look backward to their ancestors will never look forward to posterity." - Edmund Burke

Don't just wait for the storm to pass, learn to dance in the rain.

“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Be curious and however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at.”  Stephen Hawking

In a world where you can be anything, be kind .


Offline TheWhuttle

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 496
  • How many boys?
    • View Profile
Re: Harrison and Caraher - Ballyclare, Doagh Grange
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 02 September 15 01:58 BST (UK) »
Woagh, be wary of Doagh!

----
Civil registration in Ireland was organised by Civil Registration Districts.
One of these was "Antrim".

Within these CRDs there were sub-divisions called Registrar's Districts.
The "Antrim" CRD was composed of six RDs:
Viz. Antrim, Connor, Crumlin, Doagh, Randalstown & Templepatrick.

Each RD was designated to handle a certain number of townlands in their "local" vicinity.
The "Doagh" RD covered 35 townlands lying within 5 parishes:

Parish       Townland
---------------------------
Ballycor   Ballycor
Ballycor   Ballyeaston

Ballylinny   Ballycalket
Ballylinny   Ballyearl
Ballylinny   Ballygallagh
Ballylinny   Ballyhowne
Ballylinny    Ballylinny
Ballylinny   Bruslee
Ballylinny   Carntall
Ballylinny   Grange of Ballywalter
Ballylinny   Kingsbog
Ballylinny   Lisnalinchy
Ballylinny   Straidnahanna

Ballynure   Ballyclare

Grange of Doagh   Ballyclare
Grange of Doagh   Coggrey
Grange of Doagh   Doagh
Grange of Doagh   Kilbride

Kilbride   Ballybracken
Kilbride   Ballyhamage
Kilbride   Ballywee
Kilbride   Burnside
Kilbride   Crawfordsland
Kilbride   Douglasland
Kilbride   Drumadarragh
Kilbride   Duncansland
Kilbride   Fiftyacres
Kilbride   Holestone
Kilbride   Kilbride
Kilbride   Loonburn
Kilbride   M’Vickersland
Kilbride   Moss-side
Kilbride   Owensland
Kilbride   Strawpark
Kilbride   Walkmill
----------------------------

To complicate it even further, I think (though not 100% sure) that the "Doagh" RD Office was physically located in Ballyclare town!
[Probably in the Town Hall.]

Ballyclare town lies mostly within the townland of Ballyclare, which straddles the border between the parishes of  "The Grange of Doagh" and "Ballynure".


Copies of the records from the local Registrar Districts (RDs) were sent up to the offices of their parent Civil Registration Districts (CRDs).

Thus marriages involving folks from any of those 35 townlands (listed above) would have been required to be registered at the "Doagh" RD, who would then have copied up to the "Antrim" CRD (who would then have copied them up for inclusion in to the master sets in Dublin).

Sadly, it is common to see BMD records listed as supporting evidence for family histories indicating that the events had happened actually at "Doagh, Antrim, Ireland".
[Such is particularly prevalent on the LDS presentations.
 Many people accept them as gospel.
 Still, good for the present-day tourist trade to Doagh village!
 The village only had 289 inhabitants in 1881.]

The indication simply of RD (e.g. "Doagh") & CRD (e.g. "Antrim") is therefore not very diagnosticas to where the participants might have resided.
It can be plain misleading if not well designated/explained.

Ref: http://www.from-ireland.net/antrim-townlands-antrim-1855/

You really need to get hold of the "Where Resident" field, out of either the Civil or Church records, in order to tie them down.

Was the record a church record?
[Sounds like it was, as you mention "Ballyclare".]

If so, which denomination?
[This can help tie down location sometimes.
 Note: Attendees at the RC church in Ballyclare came from a wide geography.]

----
I had a quick scan of the Country Antrim 1888 Directory, restricting my search to:
Doagh (village) P.141
Ballyclare (town) P.110
Ballyeaston (village) P.112
Ballynure (village) P113

No matches on HARRISON or CARAHER for Publican/Spirit_Grocer or farmers.

Indeed, HARRISON was very scarce.
However, a Wm. J. HARSON was listed as a farmer in Dunturkey townland near to Ballynure (village).

Ref:
COUNTY ANTRIM
One Hundred Years Ago
A GUIDE AND DIRECTORY 1888
George Henry BASSETT
The Friar's Bush Press 1989
ISBN 0 946 872 17 1

----
You should also consider searching on other spelling variations which occur in the records:

HARRISON
HARISON
HARISSON
HARRESON
HARRISSON

Advice gathered from http://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/

N.B. There, I found a John HARRISON, formerly of Belfast, being buried on 22-NOV-1860 at Clontarf (CoI), Dublin.

----
A "block printer" might have worked at a Newspaper.
[Ballyclare had a huge paper mill, but not aware that they printed anything there ...]

Alternatively, it might have been a role at a Calico Printing operation.
[Unsophisticated printing on to low quality cotton fabric.]

However, there was also a huge flax-mill at Coggrey just next to Ballyclare ...

----
All the best onward!
Capt Jock
WHITTLEY - Donegore, Ballycraigy, Newtownards, Guernsey, PALI
WHITTLE - Dublin, Glenavy, Muckamore, Belfast; Jamaica; Norfolk (Virginia), Baltimore (Maryland), New York
CHAINE - Ballymena, Muckamore, Larne
EWART, DEWART - Portglenone, Ballyclare
McAFEE, WALKER - Ballyrashane

"You can't give kindness away enough, it keeps coming back to you."
Mark Twain (aka Samuel CLEMENTS) [Family origins from Ballynure, Co. Antrim.]

Offline Verlorian

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 8
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Harrison and Caraher - Ballyclare, Doagh Grange
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 02 September 15 04:28 BST (UK) »
Thank you all so much, I am overwhelmed with all the information when yesterday I had so little!! I still feel very new to this and I'm afraid a lot of it is over my head, but it is much appreciated.

Yes, I have the copy of the original marriage certificate, it's where I got the Ballyclare, Doagh Grange location.

Yes, my Ggrandmother Eleanor (Ellen) was born in Scotland, December 1860, although I have never been able to find any birth registration for her. Her father Henry Caraher was also born in Scotland in 1826 and shows up in the US census for 1900 as living with Ellen and William, he immigrated there in 1896. According to that census, Henry's parents were from Ireland. I am guessing that he came to Ireland from Scotland somewhere between 1861 and 1879.

After my Ggrandparents were married they lived in Belfast and had a daughter Wilhelmina and a son Francis and immigrated to America in 1882. So they wouldn't be in any of the Irish census'.

I am most interested in finding out more about both my GGgrandfather's families. All I know about John Harrison is his name, occupation. William, his son (1858), and according to the same 1900 US census, a daughter named Anna Harrison born in Ireland in 1873, immigration listed as 1895, was also living with William and Ellen in NJ by 1900.

All I know about Henry is much the same, except for the immigration to NJ. He was not listed in the 1910 US census, so I lost track of him within that 10 year span. Probably deceased. I see a Henry Caraher a few times in the Scotland census, but no mention of Eleanor in 1861, so I'm not sure it is him.

Thank you all again.

Offline greeneyedgirl

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 683
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Harrison and Caraher - Ballyclare, Doagh Grange
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 02 September 15 06:25 BST (UK) »
Hi, found a few bits that may or may not help in your search for Harrisons & Carahers.

Marriages:
27 Jan 1851
Drogheda, co Louth
Henry Caraher
Roman Catholic
Anne Teeling
Roman Catholic

29 Dec 1855
Armagh, co Armagh
Henry McCaraher
Mary Breen
*checked parish registers between 1841-1861

Births:
Henry Carragher
1 Sept 1802
Roman Catholic
Upper Creggan, co Armagh
father: Patrick Carragher
mother: Anne Murtha

Henry McCarraher
11 July 1826
Derrynoose, co Armagh
Roman Catholic
father: Pat McCarraher
mother: Mary Shiels

the only marriage between 1841-1861  I could find where the groom was in business was this:
23 April 1846
Lisburn, co Down  Drumbo parish
John Harrison
address: Ballina Garrick
occ: tradesman
father: David Harrison   occ:tradesman
Agnes Taylor
address: Drumbo
father: William Taylor   occ: tradesman
witnesses: John McClean & James Taylor
* mind you, I found about 10 other marriages for John Harrisons in Antrim and surrounding counties but none have him or father as grocer/ publican.

only birth I found between 1815-1835 for William Harrison is this:
William Thompson Harrison
bap: 16 March 1825
Shankill, co Antrim  St Anne's
Church of Ireland
father: John Harrison
mother: Catherine Thompson

Griffith's Valuation 1848-1864:

John Harrison  8 listings in parish: Shankill  county: Antrim
                      1 listing in parish: Blaris  county: Antrim

Henry Caraher  1 listing in parish: Newtownhamilton  county: Armagh
                       1 listing in parish: Creggan  county: Armagh
 * no Henrys in other counties of Ulster

Deaths for Henry Caraher: 27 Aug 1867  age: 85  reg: Newry
                                       28 Dec 1875  age: 71  reg: Newry

Deaths for John Harrison:
28 May 1883  age 70  reg: Lisburn
27 Oct 1884  age 86  reg: Lisburn
10 Jan 1885  age 75  reg: Lisburn
23 May 1885  age 62  reg: Belfast
25 March 1887  age 89  reg: Lisburn
27 May 1891  age 60  reg: Belfast
5 July 1895  age 73  reg: Belfast
30 Jan 1901  age 81  reg: Lisburn
11 May 1901  age 83  reg: Lisburn
* these are deaths up til 1901-problem with deaths certs is they only have minimal info on them.

I found these 2 mentions on Ros Davies co Down website. Mind you, this is not county Antrim but its the only mention of a Harrison in grocer or pub line of business.

John Harrison Sr  Dromore  a grocer, wine & spirit merchant in Dromore 1824

William Harrison  Hillsborough  a publican in Hillsborough in 1824

What I found is that the bulk of records seem to have Caraher/Carraher/McCarraghers in county Armagh and the Harrisons in counties Antrim & Down. These records I located are either from parish registers or GRONI website. If you find anything further, I can look more. Hope something helps, Kim

Offline scotmum

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,494
  • A tree full of life, a life full of branches!
    • View Profile
Re: Harrison and Caraher - Ballyclare, Doagh Grange
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 02 September 15 08:38 BST (UK) »
Quote
Yes, my Ggrandmother Eleanor (Ellen) was born in Scotland, December 1860, although I have never been able to find any birth registration for her.


Playing around with the search facility on Scotlandspeople, there is an Eleanor Carracher born in 1860 in Abbey district, Renfrew area. Given the Scottish pronunciation of 'ch', I wonder if this could be your Eleanor Caraher/Caragher. If you haven't already ruled her out, it might be worth checking same.
"Trees without roots fall over!"
 
""People who never look backward to their ancestors will never look forward to posterity." - Edmund Burke

Don't just wait for the storm to pass, learn to dance in the rain.

“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Be curious and however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at.”  Stephen Hawking

In a world where you can be anything, be kind .

Offline scotmum

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,494
  • A tree full of life, a life full of branches!
    • View Profile
Re: Harrison and Caraher - Ballyclare, Doagh Grange
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 02 September 15 08:55 BST (UK) »
Further to above, I've found an Eleanor Carracher on a birth index transcript, with a father named as Henry and mother named as Eleanor Doyle:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQZK-TP1

This is an 1859 birth, but as it was in Dec, it is not unusual that registration seems to have been in January 1860.
"Trees without roots fall over!"
 
""People who never look backward to their ancestors will never look forward to posterity." - Edmund Burke

Don't just wait for the storm to pass, learn to dance in the rain.

“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Be curious and however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at.”  Stephen Hawking

In a world where you can be anything, be kind .