Trouble with my Newtons now

[Tuggybear]

Moving on to Grandma as Granddad definitely doesn't seem to have any war records left.

Grandma was May Newton born in Leicester on 1st May 1896 to Samuel R. Newton and Matilda Simpson. No real problems there as I know they lived in Dorset Street, Leicester for most of their lives and I believe Samuel was a framework knitter/hosiery worker although Grandma always said he had a shop in Dorset Street.
Trying to trace Samuel Robert back is giving me a headache. He was apparently born in Leicester about 1864 and his parents were apparently Samuel Newton and Emma. I have found them living in Wheat Street in 1871 but in 1881 Emma has changed to Elizabeth. I can't find a marriage in Leicester between a Samuel Newton and an Emma or an Elizabeth but I remember my Grandma saying that they were 'chapel' so maybe Ancestry doesn't have any registers for a nearby chapel. Also I can find 4 children for Samuel Robert and Emma on Family Search, Lucy Ann and Adelaide all christened on 21st January 1866 and Elizabeth christened on 22nd December 1867 but I can't find Samuel Robert's christening
Samuel Robert, 1864 seems to have moved to Barrow on Soar by 1883 where he marries Ann Ballard, they have a child names Thomas. possibly the same year or possibly 1885. by 1901 he is living with Samuel Robert, 1864, and his second wife Matilda (Simpson) I think although there is a Thomas William Newton boarding with the Ballard Family in Barrow upon Soar in 1901 too  so maybe Samuel and Matilda had a Thomas too.
Think I need to buy some birth certificates to help sort this out but can anyone see any marriages for my Samuel Senior to Emma or Elizabeth. Just wondering if her name may have been Emma Elizabeth and for some reason she started using her middle name.
All help is greatly appreciated. 

[Avia]

Hi

There is information on the marriage between a Samuel Newton, Frame Work Knitter and an Emma Watts at St. Margaret's Parish Church Leicester in 1856, on the following link

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=453122.9

[Annette7]

Think the 1871 'Elizabeth' must just be an error (perhaps by the enumerator).   Samuel and Emma are still together in 1901 Census and looks like Emma died late 1911 and Samuel in 1915 (living with married daughter Adelaide on latest census).

Annette

[willsy]

Just for ref as I don't know the certificates you have

St Margaret

Entry No.41,  JUN 14, 1891, after Banns
SAMUEL ROBERT NEWTON, 27, wid. HOSIERY HAND, of 20, NAVIGATION St, s. of SAMUEL NEWTON, GARDENER
MATILDA SIMPSON, 24, sp. of 26, GARDEN St, d. of STEPHEN SIMPSON, HOSIERY HAND
Wits: GEORGE HENRY SIMPSON, ADELAIDE BUTT

1881      28-Mar   Christchurch   
NEWTON    Adelaide   
BUTT    George

1901 Samuel and Emma, he's a shopkeeper

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSHM-YQ7

Samuel Newton    Head    M    65    Leicester
Emma Newton    Wife    F    63    Leicester
Richard Platts    Lodger    M    74    Leicester

and with Adelaide 'later on'

Think it was probably a mistake on the census return...and so to his baptism

Baptism at St George

SAM ROBERT   1866    SAMUEL & EMMA   21-Jan

[willsy]

snap Annette!

[Tuggybear]

Many thanks everyone, this is great! It gives me a lot more information and I can now tie in Grandma's memory of a shop, which was obviously her grandfather's shop not her father's and was  was in Britannia Street not Dorset Street. It also confirms that Samuel Robert was indeed married before so I just need to look into Thomas and Thomas William... I think... one of which was Samuel Robert's son from his marriage to Ann Ballard in Barrow upon Soar. I need a :thumbs up: or a :hail: emoticon.   

[Tuggybear]

I've done a bit moer digging and it seems that Grandma had up to 3 half-brothers she knew nothing about. It looks like Samuel Robert (B: 1864) moved to Barrow upon Soar and married Ann Ballard in 1883. I can find three Newton boys born in Barrow upon Soar in the 1880s
Samuel Robert B: 1884 and James William Newton B: 1884 (Twins?)
Thomas William B: 1885

I think the 1891 census is wrong and Thomas R Newton aged 27, the widowed son of Samuel R Newton (No idea how that R got there.) and Elizabeth (should be Emma) is actually Samuel Robert and two of the grandsons listed, Thomas C and Samuel W Newton are actually Samuel Robert Newton (B 1884 in Barrow, NOT Belgrave as listed.) and Thomas William (B1885 in Barrow NOT Belgrave as listed.) A A Samuel Robert Newton died in Leicester in 1897 and a James William Newton died in Leicester in 1898 and My Grandma was born in May 1896 so would have only been a toddler at that time.
I can't find James William on the 1891 census for either Barrow or Leicester so no idea where he is in that year and ancestry is not letting me onto the page for the Ballard family today so can't check if he is with them.
What do you think fokls? More birth and death certificates to hopefully prove this? 

[Avia]

Hi,

I think that it is likely that the Thomas Newton B: 1886 Shoe Riveter recorded with his father and family at 127 Dorset Street in 1901 is one and the same as the Thomas Newton B: 1885 Shoe Laster, recorded as a visitor at the home of his maternal Uncle Thomas William Ballard and family at 81, Moores Road. There are many instances of people being recorded in 2 different households in all of the census', for many different reasons.

England and Wales Births 1837-2006

Q1 1884
Sam Robert Newton
Barrow Upon Soar
V: 7A P: 162

Q4 1885
Thomas William Newton
Barrow Upon Soar
V: 7A P: 164

England and Wales Deaths 1837-2007
 
Samuel Robert Newton
Birth Year: 1885
Age: 12
Death Quarter: 1
Death Year: 1897
District: Leicester
V: 7A P: 114

There is a death notice in the Leicester Chronicle 23 Jan 1897.

NEWTON - on the 16th inst at 8 Leadenhall Street, Samuel Robert son of Samuel Robert Newton, aged 12 years.

The James William Newton that you have found born 1884 Barrow Upon Soar is unlikely to be the twin of Samuel as the only James William Newton Registered in Q1 1884 is in Gateshead. A James William Newton is registered in Barrow in Q4 1884 and may be the son of William Newton B: 1851 Canterbury, Kent living in Barrow through to the 1911 Census. There is a James William Newton B: 24 Aug 1884 D: 1977 Loughborough.

[Tuggybear]

Thanks for that Avia. I am fairly certain that the 1901 census has Thomas William listed twice. It is the 1891 census I am guessing is wrong in that I think Samuel Robert Newton has returned to his parents home after being widowed with his two young sons. Thomas R born in 1864 is I believe actually SAMUEL Robert and his two sons, Thomas and Samuel have been given the wrong initials in that Thomas C is actually Thomas W and Samuel W is in fact Samuel R

Thanks for the information on Samuel Robert jnr's death. That has given me a firm date to go on.

I cannot find James William Newton anywhere but a boy of his name and year of birth died in Leicester in 1898, which makes me wonder if he is related to my Samuel Robert Newton. I think I need to invest in some certificates to try and link this part of the family together.