St. Mary Redcliffe Church and Redcliffe.

[Mary Crane]

Hi - I have found a map c 1580-1610 of Redcliffe which whilst listing other churches does not mention St. Mary Redcliffe church.  This is actually located at the bottom left of the map in basically a rural area.  I am confused as I thought by this time Redcliffe and the area around the church was quite built up.  Was the church initially isolated?  Also, if Queen Elizabeth I visited it in about 1580 ? surely it would have been part of the built up area by then.

Hope you can see the attached map. copyright image removed

Any views would be appreciated thanks.

[Ruskie]

I don't know the history of the area at all, and I can't see the map clearly, but if you say that the church was in a rural area at the time, maybe it was deemed not significant enough to include on the map.

There may have been some artistic licence taken with drawing the map - I see that there is a box and people 'decorating the bottom left corner - maybe the church wouldn't fit in as well?

As for the extent of the city, it seems to be shown on the map and if St Mary's is outside the walls and the area does not appear to be built up, then presumably that is reasonably accurate. I do see a church by the road outside the walls towards the bottom left of the map .... 

All guesswork on my part. 

[Ruskie]

As I mentioned, I am not familiar with the geography of the area, but if I have this right and this map covers the same area as your old map, then even in the 19th century the area wasn't particularly built up:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01g9n/ 

[Mary Crane]

Many thanks for the replies and the link to the map.

I have just found some more information that the church was built outside the city walls - which fits in with the map.  Also in medieval times the church was situated on a red cliff above the River Avon, and was a sign to seafarers, who would pray in it at their departure, and give thanks there upon their return. The current  church was built from 1292 and 1370.

It seems then that the church was built and then the area around it developed. 

[Ruskie]

It makes sense for the area to be developed after the church was built - more likely just the urban spread of Bristol. The church would probably originally have served a particular area and the whole lot has been swallowed up over the centuries.

[Ruskie]

Mary, might St Marys be the church just outside the walls on the SW?

Trying to compare locations of the church on a modern map, the map I provided a link to, and your old map (I think the orientation of your map is a little different), it seems to be in the right sort of area. It's a pretty impressive structure so you would expect it to be marked on your map, and you wouldn't expect there to have been two such large churches in such close vicinity in those times ....

[KGarrad]

I think that the church shown on the map IS St Mary Redcliff?

The church is north of the river, and south of the Floating Harbour (which wasn't built until 1809).

Scrap that!
St Mary Redcliff is the church in the bottom left of the map!

An obvious clue is that the street just yards to the north of the church is (still) Portwall Lane!
And a modern map shows "Port Wall (course of)" between Portwall Lane and Redcliffe Way.

I used the Bristol City Council site - http://maps.bristol.gov.uk/knowyourplace/ - and overlayed the 1750 map with the modern OS map.

[Old Bristolian]

St Mary Redcliffe is certainly the church in the bottom left of the map - just to the right of the elegant Elizabethan lady. It was built outside the city walls which can be seen on the map, although the district called Redcliffe was just inside them. It is shown here without its spire which was lost in a storm in the 1440s. It was replaced in the 1880s. The "red cliff" is just to the west of it overlooking Bristol's harbour

Steve

[Ruskie]

Thanks for clarifying Steve. I'm glad to know I was not imagining that that big old church appeared to be in the correct area to be St Mary.