Robert Phipps of Walthamstow died 1775

[AlanWatson]

Thanks for another good idea. I shall certainly do that.

In the meantime, I have been doing my best to read the will of Elizabeth Phipps died 1773 Mile End.

The main points I picked out from it were:

1. This is Elizabeth widow of John the apothecary rather than her mother in law Elizabeth Warner who married John the plasterer.

2, She was to be buried in Bunhill Fields as close as possible to her husband (whose burial record I have not yet found). (This Elizabeth was buried there the same day that her will was proved, 17 June 1773)

3. She wanted her nephew, John Jennings I think, to be her undertaker. I still haven't found this Elizabeth's maiden name or details of her marriage. Obviously (if I have read correctly) it was either Jennings or she had a sister who married Jennings, or perhaps her husband had a sister who married Jennings.

4. She appoints her son, John Warner Phipps (confirmation that her mother in law was indeed Elizabeth Warner), her nephew Robert Phipps junior of Walthamstow (the person with whom we started, the upholsterer) and Mr Thomas Slack Sugar Refiner (news to me) of Goodmans Fields (he married her niece, Elizabeth Maria Phipps, sister or Robert Junior of Walthamstow) as her executors.

5. Their main duty is to hold some investments in trust for her grandchildren, Warner Phipps and Elizabeth Maria Phipps, children of John Warner Phipps, paying the dividends to John Warner Phipps to pay for their maintenance and education and dividing the principal equally between the two of them when they reach the age of 21. (Then there is lots on what happens if one or both dies or her son has other children before then.)

6. In the event, only the son John Warner Phipps takes up the role of executor.

There is still quite a bit that I can't read, so I may have missed something.

I can also see the will and death record of the grandchild Warner Phipps, proved 1828. He was born in 1768 and became secretary of the Albion Life Assurance Company. I haven't found any other record of his sister or any record of his mother.


Thanks again for all your help.

Alan

[amondg]

On Ancestry under Clandestine marriage
Robert Phipps, pipe maker of St Luke Middlesex married Elizabeth Jennings of New Windsor Berkshire on 2 December 1747 (London) the actual church not listed.
There follows Robert Phipps married Elizabeth Himmings on 22 December 1747 at the  Fleet Prison Chapel Westminster London.
The original is on file the date is actually the 22nd of December not the 2nd and due to an ink smudge it could be Jennings or Himmings.

Elizabeth Maria Phipps, spinster married Thomas Slack, widower of St Mary Whitechapel 1 May 1773 St Katherine Creechurch, witness Robert Phipps and Joseph Slack     

[AlanWatson]

Thanks for this too. I alluded to the Phipps /Slack marriage in my first post. His first wife was Jane Ansell. They had a daughter Sarah in 1770 and wife Jane died giving birth to second child Thomas in 1772.

I'm not sure that the other marriage works. We know that this is a middle class family, which doesn’t really fit. Also, if Jennings was a nephew on Elizabeth's husband's side, then it couldn't have been through her brother-in-law, since we know that he was a very prosperous upholsterer who had children with his wife Mary.

We need either an unknown sister Phipps marrying Jennings and having a child John, or for Jennings to have been Elizabeth's maiden name,  and for her brother to have had a child John, or for Elizabeth's sister to have married Jennings etc


Alan

[sugarbakers]

... and Mr Thomas Slack Sugar Refiner (news to me) of Goodmans Fields ...

30+ entries for Thomas Slack (and maybe his son of same name??) and his sugar refining businesses at  www.mawer.clara.net/sugarssen.html .

I'll sort out his marriages and add them asap.

A 1778 will is at TNA - PROB 11/1064, again I'll try to get it and add a summary to my website.

If the business is of interest to you, read  www.mawer.clara.net/greenwood.html .  Long hours, heat, beer, and an early death 

[sugarbakers]

Sorry, that will ref does not exist 

**

It would appear that ...
Thomas Slack married Jane Ansell in West Ham 1766, which coincides with the earliest sugar entry I have for him. I found 5 children - Elizabeth 1767, Jane 1768, Patience 1770, Sarah 1771, Thomas 1772, all born Mansell St. Then, as you say, Jane, aged 24, died in 1772, as did children Thomas and Patience.
Thomas Slack married Elizabeth Maria Phipps 1773. I found 4 children - Fanny 1775, Elizabeth Maria 1774, Sophia 1778, Thomas Cartwright 1779, all bpt St Botolph Aldgate.
No death for Thomas Slack yet. Thomas Cartwright Slack, who was also a sugar refiner, is listed in TNA Wills Index in 1816. (Will get that will and summarize on website)

[amondg]

Robert Phipps of St Botolphs Aldgate married Mary Giddings daughter of Benjamin Giddings of St Johns Wapping. Bond issued to Benjamin Giddings and Robert Phipps 9 May 1734, they no doubt married shortly after.

Non Conformist Registers London

#892 Elizabeth Maria born 6 April 1775 Walthamstow to Robert PHIPPS and Mary Fletcher daughter of Thomas Fletcher, registered 29 December 1775

#893 Elizabeth Maria born 11 January 1774 to Thomas SLACK and Elizabeth Maria Phipps daughter of Robert Phipps, registered 30 December 1775

#894 Fanny born 27 February 1775 to Thomas SLACK and Elizabeth Maria Phipps daughter of Robert Phipps, registered 30 December 1775.

others found so far:
Harriet Slack born 24 July 1783 St George Bloomsbury
Charlotte born 19 September 1785  ditto
Louisa Siddons Slack born 2 October 1790 at Bray Berkshire

Will of Thomas Slack of 23 Bloomsbury Court died 1810 probate 8 October 1810.
Cousin George Slack of Lambeth, son Thomas Cartwright Slack eldest son and John Pousain? executors.
The main will only mentions his son Thomas Cartwright Slack and his second son Joseph Albin Slack.
The codicil mentions daughters Charlotte Slack, Louisa Siddons Slack, and Mary Slack plus married daughters (no names) and including the family of late daughter Elizabeth Maria Phipps

Son Thomas Cartwright Slack dies 1815/1816 probate 1816 leaves everything to his brother Joseph Albin Slack and his wife Jane Hester Slack.

[sugarbakers]

Thank you, amondg, for will of Thomas Slack ... found it now, will summarize on website.

Joseph Albin Slack was a sugar refiner in Hull in 1820s.

[AlanWatson]

Thanks for the info on the Slacks. I think I had both wives,  their marriages and deaths and the children (10 in total). The main point of interest is that daughter Elizabeth Maria Slack married her cousin Jonathan Wathen-Phipps. I just didn't know that he was a sugar refiner. Nor did I have his will.

Thanks too for the marriage of Robert Phipps to May Giddings. It is the only marriage I can see that could fit, but it still doesn't seem quite right to me. If they married in 1734, why were there no children until 1742? I would like a little more confirmation that this really was the right couple.

I also looked at the London Lives website. there is a lot about Robert Phipps of Walthamstow, a butcher and not our man, having an illegitimate child. And a case about John Warner Phipps, coal merchant, being defrauded of some coal.

Alan

[Lily M]

Is anyone any good at identifying handwriting?

Robert Phipps has signed his will dated 1775

He signed as a witness on the marriage of Thomas Slack & Elizabeth Phipps in 1773

He also signed the apprenticeship (on Freedom of the City) for John Austin in 1762

So bearing in mind that there's a 30 years gap - do you think it could be the same man who signed the bond for Robert Phipps & Mary Giddings in 1734?  (in London & Surrey Marriage Bonds)    I don't know .


ADDED:   The more I look, the more I'm inclined to think it's the same hand.