WWI Service Medal 1914-1920 more info please?

[jcjc123]

That age of 26 is a bit if a problem and it would be good to look again at evidence....

Looking at that medal card link from National Archive you give for Thomas Startup...It does not give a middle name (Richard) which would be good supporting evidence it is your man. The silver war badge record does not say Richard either (and also has age 26).

JCJC  Do you have other information tying your man to this regiment and/or with this number? (on a marriage/birth certificate for example?).What leads you to think this is the right medal card and therefore the right man? Is it possible he did not serve in WW1 or do you have family stories, photos etc that suggest he did?

Without any other evidence I would say that as the Silver Badge record says age 26 (and that badge matches the medal card), it would seem most likely that this is not Thomas Richard born 1870 but another Thomas Startup born about 1892 (there are plenty born about that time)

Just for reference, here is earlier thread which shows Thomas having middle name Richard www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=734373.msg5797522#msg5797522

It also shows Thomas absent from family in 1901 census and not found elsewhere. So where was he? Was he abroad in army or navy perhaps? He was occupation Labourer in 1897 and 1903 on children's baptisms.

We can't do 1911 lookups..but have you found him in 1911 yet?


Milly

I'm feeling (having not seen the medical card record myself) that either the hand writting is bad and it could be a number misreading, or it's just the wrong person. I'm not ruling it out till i've seen the document myself but it is looking likely that's a different chap - possibly whatever hospitalised him in 1901 ruled him out of subscription so that would be interesting to find out more on.
I have him in 1903 back with his family (out of hospital) and having more children so some parts of him were working! But nothing (other than dying siblings/parents) after that.

[millymcb]

No you are not being dim

Institutions like hospitals, schools, barracks, workhouses were enumerated in a slightly different way. The name of the institution is on the front page (or near the front, I can't remember) and not on each individual page.

There are various ways of getting to this page depending on the site you are using.

You start from the actual original image of the page (not a transcript) with your name and then page backwards to get to the front. On some sites you can change page numbers in the viewer and leap back to the front which is less time consuming - especially if like in this case you are starting on page twenty!

That paging through the census images is really useful to know about for other things eg seeing which regiment a soldier is in if it is a barracks, or just walking the the streets of a census area if you know someone lives there but you can't find them by searching on a name which may be mis transcribed.

I think it does look like this could be your man in hospital but not sure you will ever know why he was there. Sometimes local records offices have hospital records but is a long shot.

Milly

[jcjc123]

No you are not being dim

Institutions like hospitals, schools, barracks, workhouses were enumerated in a slightly different way. The name of the institution is on the front page (or near the front, I can't remember) and not on each individual page.

There are various ways of getting to this page depending on the site you are using.

You start from the actual original image of the page (not a transcript) with your name and then page backwards to get to the front. On some sites you can change page numbers in the viewer and leap back to the front which is less time consuming - especially if like in this case you are starting on page twenty!

That paging through the census images is really useful to know about for other things eg seeing which regiment a soldier is in if it is a barracks, or just walking the the streets of a census area if you know someone lives there but you can't find them by searching on a name which may be mis transcribed.

I think it does look like this could be your man in hospital but not sure you will ever know why he was there. Sometimes local records offices have hospital records but is a long shot.

Milly

thanks for the advice, i've been doing this just a few weeks and it's been a very steep learning curve, my father in law tried to do the tree 10+years ago but found it very slow going, by comparison i'm speeding through it but everyone seems to know so much more than me and while it takes me ages (if at all!) to find something, you guys know it in seconds so i'm hoping to catch up eventually!

[jcjc123]

No you are not being dim

Institutions like hospitals, schools, barracks, workhouses were enumerated in a slightly different way. The name of the institution is on the front page (or near the front, I can't remember) and not on each individual page.

There are various ways of getting to this page depending on the site you are using.

You start from the actual original image of the page (not a transcript) with your name and then page backwards to get to the front. On some sites you can change page numbers in the viewer and leap back to the front which is less time consuming - especially if like in this case you are starting on page twenty!

That paging through the census images is really useful to know about for other things eg seeing which regiment a soldier is in if it is a barracks, or just walking the the streets of a census area if you know someone lives there but you can't find them by searching on a name which may be mis transcribed.

I think it does look like this could be your man in hospital but not sure you will ever know why he was there. Sometimes local records offices have hospital records but is a long shot.

Milly

Just a thought - I vaguely remember reading there's a record of people who couldn't be signed up ww1 - and a reason, is it likely (if that's correct) i can find him and his illness there?
is there a smart way to check all family of the right age on ww1 subscriptions to see if they served?

[millymcb]

It is possible it is a mistake in age on the silver war badge card but unlikely.

Thomas would have been 44/45 in 1914/15 which is quite old. There were soldiers of that age if course. You often see it where they had previous army service or specific skills.

It would not be unusual for someone of his age not to have been enlisted in WW1

Do you have a particular reason to think he did? And why that particular medal card you asked about (see my earlier questions)

Milly

[millymcb]

No there is no list of those who did not serve.  You may be thinking of conscientious objectors .. those who refused to serve on moral grounds. (There is no full list if these either)

Not sure what you mean by this
is there a smart way to check all family of the right age on ww1 subscriptions to see if they served?

All family of right age? Do you mean a particular family?
WW 1 subscriptions? (Do you mean enlistment?)

Milly

[jcjc123]

No there is no list of those who did not serve.  You may be thinking of conscientious objectors .. those who refused to serve on moral grounds. (There is no list if these either)

Not sure what you mean by this
is there a smart way to check all family of the right age on ww1 subscriptions to see if they served?

All family of right age? Do you mean a particular family?
WW 1 subscriptions? (Do you mean enlistment?)

Milly

I have no reason to think he served - other that the a*ctry hint that now seems to give the wrong age.
All family of the right age - I mean everyone in my tree who was of the right age around the time of the war - in some branches I know a son served, but he had 5-9 other brothers i'd also check, is there a smart way to do this?
subscription - sorry i mean conscription

i do recall being told of a list of those who were excepted, a very small % were conscientious objectors, most were illness and some where employment as the reason they didn't have to serve. I'll have a route about to find out

[millymcb]

Ah..You mean Reserved Occupation. No there is no list.

In early years of war men were volunteers and conscription only came in in 1916.
http://spartacus-educational.com/FWWconscription.htm

You generally use the term "enlisted" as in signed up. You will also see  "Attested" to mean when they fill in the "Attestation Sheet" signing up to serve.

Those pesky Ancestry hints should be taken with a huge pinch of salt. There are loads of Thomas Startup medal cards and no way to match one to your man without more information which we don't have. Sometimes people have a medal with a name and number and regiment on it, or maybe a photo of a man in uniform with identifiable badges, or letters home, or a wartime marriage certificate etc. Without something like that to give you regiment/service number it is impossible to match up a medal card to a man.

Very occasionally a medal card will have an address on it (for where to send medals) so always worth checking the original. (Ideally the Ancestry colour version which has front and back)

There are no quick and easy ways...without knowing a regiment or service number you have to plough through service papers.

Look at Ancestry and if there is no Thomas Richard then you have to open original image for every single possible Thomas Startup looking for age, occupation, birthplace, address, next of kin. Eventually you may find one that matches something you already know.

Only about 30% of papers survived the blitz in WW2 so you still only have a one in three chance of success. That said, I have found people this way.

There is also a thing called National Roll of The Great War. It  lists some men who served and often gives their address. The details were supplied by family after the war who paid for the entry. It is a tiny proportion if those who served but I did find my great grandfather there whose records had been lost. I believe you have ancestry http://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=9283

Milly

[millymcb]

I think you said you have Ancestry? If so you can see that Silver War Badge Record with age 26 yourself. The search is hidden away and hard to find sometimes. Here is a link to it
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=2456

Other useful sites
Commonwealth War Graves should list All deaths of service personnel and some civilians in both wars.
www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead.aspx

In addition to Ancestry, WW1 Medal Cards can be searched at National Archives. Sometimes it is easier to search there and then go to Ancestry for the colour image. You can download image at National Archive for a fee but is black and white and does not show reverse of the card
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/british-army-medal-index-cards-1914-1920/

Those are the main starter sites for WW1 research.

Milly