Surname index 1851 Oxfordshire Census

[Mistyrose41]

Can anyone help I am looking for a William & Betty Newman and their family on the 1851 Oxfordshire census. William was born in Kempsford Glos in 1818. His wife Elizabeth [Betty] was born in Pinkney Wilts 1816. They were living at Filkins Oxon on the 1861.
Any help would be much appriciated. Mistyrose

[censusmick]

1851 census
try film 1969 folio 181 page 081
' bibury or ablington GLS ?

william head 32 b.dudgrove gls
betty wife ?? b.pinkney wil
sarah da 13 b. dudgrove as were the following
savery ( male) 12  igi 2/aug/1840
emma da 8
joseph so 3

micknewman - a small cog in the newman name society - brownie points wanted !!!!

[Mistyrose41]

Hello Mick, Thanks for the info on William & Betty Newman. I was hoping to find that they had a son William but sadly no trace of him on the 51' I am looking for a William Newman b. 1843/48 possibly in the Cricklade district of Wiltshire. I have him on the 71' in Shepperton Middlesex. 81',91' and 1901 living in Pyrford Surrey. I have traced a William Newman on the Wilts '61 living as a lodger in Highworth. I am not sure if this is the William I am seeking but believe it may be. I know his father was a Shepherd as it is stated on his marriage certificate. Fathers name is given as Joseph but have not been able to connect a William to a Joseph[Gets confusing]! So looking at occupations and William senior is down as a Shepherd on the '61 [you never know]. I have a William bap. in the Calne Union Workhouse 5th Nov 1848 who I can't trace on any census return
On the '51 He is on the Calne Union Census return along with his mother Mary and a sister Emily born at Purton which is in Cricklade district. Mary died in the Workhouse in July 1852. I believe I have traced Emily to Kensington on the '61 employed as a servant but William is an enigma!! [lots of Brownie points for looking]!!  Mistyrose

[censusmick]

Dear Mistyrose

Not sure if this is of any use, or another tangent to go off on !!!

Looked up my 'holdings' of Newmans in 1851 Census for any Josephs & sons William.

The only possible candidate is :

Wilts - Preshute - Film 1838 Folios between 279 -290, can't be any more specific as the details came from the NIMROD listings at the Society of Genealogists.
Joseph 38 b.Preshute
Maria ( Possibly nee KING ) 34 b.Overton Wilts
Ellen Mary 10 b.Marlborough
William 8 b.Preshute
John 6 b.Elcomb
Emily 1 b.Fyfield

All these locations appear approx 1/2 mile SSW of Marlborough except Elcomb which is nearer Swindon.

A possible London connection with this William is that he married an Isabella b.Kensington and had a kid William b c1868 at Lambeth SRY.
They were still 'up the Smoke' in 1871, but by 1881 had moved to Hound, HANTS extremely close ( the next folio ) to his Father/Mother.
Both then shown as carpenters.
Joseph's father is assumed as Abraham, and there are several generations in Preshute according to the IGI.

Will try to dig out more if required.

Not being funny, but, are you sure you are on the right track regarding Pyrford what is the area mentioned on that marriage certificate ie where it took place etc, witnesses ? any other info ?

Mick Newman

[Mistyrose41]

Hello Mick,
 Thank you for taking the trouble to look up William and Joseph Newman for me. From the top this is what I have:
1901  census -  William Newman 54 [b. aprrox 1847] Cricklade Wilts.
Head. Married.  Pyrford St Nichols Surrey. Agricultural Labourer
1891 Census - John Newman [should read William] 43 [b. approx 1848] Cricklade Wilts. Head. Married. Pyrford Surrey. Agricultural Labourer.
1881 census - William Newman 37 [b. approx 1844] Cricklade Wilts. Head. Married. Pyrford Surrey. Agricultural Labourer.
1871 census - William Newman 25 [b. approx 1846] Cricklade Wilts.
Head. Married. Shepperton Green Middx. Labourer.

MARRIAGE: 8/01/1870 Christchurch, Brixton Rd, Kennington, Surrey.
William Newman of Littleton Middlesex Father Joseph. Occupation Shepherd. to Elizabeth Curtis of 13, Gloucester Place, Cowley Rd, Brixton, Surrey. Father Thomas. Shepherd.
I also have a copy from both Banns registers.

I cannot find a Birth Certificate for William or a bapt. in Cricklade.

There is an entry for the 1861 census but I can't tell if it is my William.
1861  William Newman. Lodger. Unmarried. 16 Agricultural Labourer b. Highworth Wilts. in the Household of a William & Mary Stone of Common Farm, Farringdon Rd. in the tything of Eastrop.
William & Mary are there on the 1851 census but not William Newman.
I cannot find a William Newman with a father Joseph on the '51 apart from the William & Joseph you have mentioned but this is not my William.
The only William I can find that does not seem to appear on future census returns is the William from the Calne Union Workhouse. HO107/1837 067 folio 049 with his mother Mary Newman and sister Emily. Emily was Bapt. at Purton Union Wilts on 12/05/1839[ Bap. reg no: 1373] only mother's name given. Single women.
This apprears to me to perhaps be the connection to Purton.
There were 3 Joseph Newmans Bapt. in Purton between 1810 and 1820. All Grandsons of Joseph Newman and Ann Oadham.
1] Son of Benjamin Bapt. 1819 at Purton. M Jane Gleed. They do not seem to have had a son called William.
2] Son of James Bapt. 7/6/1813 at Purton M Elizabeth [Short]? at Bath. They also do not seem to have had a son Called William. This Joseph Died at Walcot, Bath in 1866.
3] Son of Joseph and Jane Haskins Bapt.25/12/1815. I have as yet not been able to trace this Joseph... perhaps he died young.
There is also a Joseph Newman Bapt at Hannington 24/10/1813 to a William & Mary Newman. I have not been able as yet to trace.

All the William Newman's on the Wilts '51 I tried to cross reference with the '71 most a can match up but not William from the Calne Union Workhouse.

 This now is purely supersition:
Joseph and Jane Haskins [The Miller of Purton] had 2 daughters called Mary Bapt. at Purton 1812 and 1819.
William & Mary Newman from Hannington had a Daughter Bapt: at Hannington 13/7/1823.
Both these Mary's had brothers called Joseph.

3 Mary Newman's appear on the 1841 Wilts census in this area
1 in Purton in the household of Thorn Newman at Row looks like wife of Richard Thorn's Grandson.
Another Mary with her family at Lucus Hill Hannington D. William and Mary. She had a brother called Joseph.
The 3rd Mary Newman age 20 is a Servant to a Thomas Smith. Yeoman at Parsonage Farm in Eastrop Township of Highworth.

On the Wilts FHS fiche of the Wootten Bassett Hiring Fairs the is an entry:-

2/04/1844 Mary Ann Newman . Master Mundee, Calne.

There is a entry in the Minutes of the meetings of the Poor Law Board Calne. 02/07/1851. Regarding Mary Newman and Children.
It states: "A letter from the
Poor Law Board was produced relative to the case of these paupers and stating that the pauper's residence in the parish of Brenhill is broken, but at the time of her readmission to the Workhouse the pauper appears to have been a destitute watfarer or wanderer and therefore on that ground is chargeable to the Common Fund of the Union.."  Mary's son William was Bapt. in the Calne Union Workhouse on 5/11/1848  Bapt. Reg No: 1904. Mary Newman Died of Phthisis [TB]? in the workhouse 26/5/1852 Death Certificate says 4 years certified.
I am trying to find out what happened to her children after she died.
Q. Were they sent back to her place of settlement [ to her perants if they were know]. Were they brought up by an uncle called Joseph?
Who knows. I will still keep looking you never know something may just fall in to place. This is why I have widened my search to the adjoining counties. Regards, Mistyrose.

[censusmick]

Thanks for sharing the info of the 'Time-Line' for what you know of William.
The following may be of use to you, if only to help in eliminating !!!! them ...in the nicest possible sense    .
========================================================================
SUPPOSITIONS BASED ON YOUR INFORMATION + THE IGI LISTING

Mistyrose :       Emily                      Baptised      12/May/1839    Purton Union Wilts [Bap. Reg. No.1373]
WILTSHIRE IGI :        Emily         / Mary Newman      Christening    5/Dec/1852     Edington        Wilts
1851 Census :     Calne W/H      Emily 12     born Purton  Wilts      cby 1839
The WILTSHIRE IGI shows Emily as the daughter of / Mary Newman. I believe the '/' is usually an indication in the IGI of the Mother being un-married ?. Hopefully the Purton Union is not another W/House ?, though if it is, their records may be more informative than a Parish Register ?
Have you tried to find a certificate for Emily in the BDM Indexes ?
Are there any references to an Emily age 2 in the 1841 Wilts Census ?

SUPPOSITION :     Mary, having died 26/May/1852, - approx 7 months previously-, perhaps who-ever took on Emily had her (re-)Christened ? at Edington on 5/Dec/1852 ?
Can you get a look-up for a possible ( adult ? ) Edington Baptism on this date ?.

Mistyrose :          Mary died Calne W/H   26/May/1852
1851 Census :     Calne W/H      Mary 30/38     born Christian Malford  Wilts       cby 1821
( 2 separate indexes give 2 different ages for Mary - can you see the original film to verify ? )
Can you ask for a look-up for the Christian Malford Parish Registers to check for Marys birth ?

Mistyrose :              William Baptised Calne Union Workhouse 5/Nov/1848
1851 Census :     Calne W/H      William 2     born Bremhill  Wilts      cby 1849

SUPPOSITION : Perhaps William was 'farmed out' to some-one in Cricklade ? as he was approx 3 years old when his mother died, perhaps he assumed that Cricklade WAS his place of Birth ?.
=====================================================================
SUPPOSITIONS ON A CHRISTIAN MALFORD / BREMHILL / CALNE  CONNECTION

Christian Malford is approx 5 miles NW of Bremhill which is approx 2 miles NW of Calne.
There may be a 'trail' from Christian Malford to Bremhill then on to Calne
In the 1851 Census at Bremhill there are 3 separate families whose HEADS are shown as being born in CHRISTIAN MALFORD and who are within 2 folios ( approx 20 houses ) of each other.
BIG supposition ( based on Christian Malford as the birthplace and the approx age ranges ) is that they and Mary are related / siblings ? :
BUT if so, why did they not help her - possibly the black sheep of the family - un-married with 2 kids ?
Perhaps the Christian Malford PR will help ?.

John 43 ( wife Hannah (nee Boulton ?)                     b. Christian Malford Film 1837-Folio 026-Sched 017
Thomas 41 ( wife Rebecca (nee Hadrell ?)               b. Christian Malford Film 1837-Folio 028-Sched 032
Joseph 35 ( wife Elizabeth (nee Bull ?)                     b. Christian Malford Film 1837-Folio 028-Sched 038

Also the following is assumed to be the same Joseph( not the Joseph above )
 but listed in 2 places ( one place said he was absent )
Joseph  ( Absent age not shown )                             b. Bremhill               Film 1837-Folio 016-Sched 082
Elizabeth ( wife )   48                                                 b. Broad Hinton       Film 1837-Folio 016-Sched 082
THEN AT CALNE
Joseph 60 Married                                                     b. Bremhill               Film 1837-Folio 117-Sched 055

There were only 4 Newmans in Calne, the other 3, in the W/House, were Mary, Emily, William

====================================================================
REFERENCE YOUR SUPPOSITION ON WILLIAM  b. HIGHWORTH  IN THE 1861 CENSUS
The following from the 1851 may 'eliminate' him - sorry ...
Film 1833 Folio 017 / 18  Sched 026 at Highworth
Henry         42    b. Coxwell      BRK
Charlotte    43    b. Highworth   WIL
William        7    b. Highworth
Elizabeth      5    b. Highworth
John             3    b. Highworth
=============================================================================
Again, I hope I am not confusing the issue with the above.                        Mick Newman

[Mistyrose41]

Hello Mick,
Wow!! what a lot of information to digest. Re the William on the '61. There are 2 William Newman's of the same age both stating that  they were born in Highworth. The one you mention is the other one.

I told you that My William was married from Littleton in Middlesex. Well I don't know if this will have any bearing but the Rector of Devizes [on the 1861] was Peter A.L.Wood Grandson of Thomas Wood of Littleton [Owner of the Manor]. Could this be how William got to Middlesex.
        I'll work through all your info and see what I can come up will. Thank for taking the time to look.

             Kind regards,
                  Mistyrose