The Chamberlain Family - London

[Jamesharrislondonuk]

Oral history – Summary of main points
- There was a family mystery over Horace Colbert Chamberlain's origins
- The 'general' family view was that he was born into a well-to-do family
- His father was in the Queens Hussar's and in early childhood they lived a military life.
- He was apparently born in the barracks in ‘Famoye’ Ireland
- At some point his father died (in the army) and his mother remarried someone in the military.
- Horace's step father was understood as being strict and brutal which led to Horace running away from home at the age of 16.  Horace recalled having to always clean his step father’s riding boots.
- Apparently he used-up his inheritance before meeting Jane Hagger his future wife
- Horace married Jane Hagger in the East End, living close to a number of the wider Hagger family members
- Horace worked on the railways as Carman (my father, Horace’s grandson still has his railway whistle somewhere)
- Horace had moved from a well-to-do standard of living to a very poor life and it was apparently viewed not so well with the Chamberlain family
- My grandmother reported visiting the dressmakers shop in North London several times in her childhood to visit her Aunt Annie (assuming this is Annie Pimm nee Chamberlain) and vaguely remembered one of the sisters.
- Annie apparently was known as ‘Press’ by the children (the name could have been misunderstood by me when taking notes) and lived Brentwood.
- She remembered her Aunt as being quite austere and their home and shop being the height of luxury and a considerably higher standard of living than theirs.
- She recalled being told that Aunt Annie was well educated and attended a finishing school in Paris
- One recollection was the detail regarding the Ceremonial military Helmets designed and made by Ernest William Pimm Annie’s husband.  He was apparently well known internationally for he’s products and produced those ‘spiked’ helmets worn by the Kaiser of Germany.
- Horace played a part in the 1st World War but he never mentioned a word or talked about it with his family.
- Horace was quite an austere but loving father and insisted on educating his children and instilling manners at all cost. 
- There was a hierarchy of respect with Horace’s children with the eldest son having his own room in an already small house in the East End.  The other children slept in the same bed 
- Annie his sister was apparently quite upset at Horace’s funeral as she thought he should be placed in the family grave

[Jamesharrislondonuk]

Facts i’ve gathered so far...

Arthur John Chamberlain
-   Born to John Chamberlain and Jane Tew, 4/9/1857 (Q4 1857 Vol 1c pg110 - Shoreditch, London, Middlesex)
-   Death is unclear.  Arthur doesn’t appear in any further Census returns after 1881 and there is a Death Certificate record the 2nd quarter of 1891 (Q2 1891 Vol 1b pg193 - Islington, Greater London, Middlesex).  The Assumption is that if this is his death certificate he must have died before April 5th 1891 when the census was taken.
-   In the census returns Arthur was born in London but his father John was born Willey, Warwickshire (Clifton upon Dunsmore)

Military Service
7th Hussar's
Regiment #: 1498
Theatres/Campaigns were Newbridge, Cahir
7th Hussar's From:1879 To:1881.  Newbridge & Cahir.  'War Office: Muster Books and Paylists WO 16/1213 7th Hussars.  7th Hussars Calvary & Footguards War Office Muster Books & Pay Lists. Date Range: 1879 - 1881


Census appearances

1861 (7th April) Census:
Arthur J Chamberlain aged 3 born around 1858, Son
Father John born in Leicester, Willey and Mother Jane
Born Shorditch, Middlesex, England
Civ Parish Middlesex, County London, Reg district Islington, Sub reg district Islington East
Ed/Institution or vessel 47
Household Schedule 154
Arthur lived with his father, mother and 2 other siblings (Ellen J and George E), as well as 2 boarders who were Tailors
The main Occupation of the household was Tailor and dressmaker

1871 (2nd April) Census:
Arthur J Chamberlain age 13 born around 1858, Son
Father John and Mother Jane
Born Shorditch, Middlesex, England
Civ Parish Islington St Peter, County London, Reg district Islington, Sub reg district Islington East
Ed/Institution or vessel 5b
Household Schedule 539
Arthur lived with his father, mother and 2 other siblings (Ellen J and George E)
The main Occupation of the household was Tailor and dressmaker
(Class: RG10; Piece: 279; Folio: 80; Page: 32; GSU roll: 824920)

1881 (3rd April) Census:
Arthur Chamberlain aged 24 born around 1857 in  Tottenham, Middlesex, England..  Head of household, Spouse Elizabeth (status married) aged 22 born around 1859 in Dublin Ireland.
Occupation Private in 7th Hussars
Registration district Elham, Sub Reg District Folkstone, Ed/Institution or vessel 12
Civil Parish Cheriton, County Kent Street address ‘Chapel Street’.
(Class: RG11; Piece: 1093; Folio: 51; Page: 26; Line:  ; GSU roll: 1341257)

[Jamesharrislondonuk]

Horace Colbert Chamberlain
-   Born to Arthur John Chamberlain and Elizabeth Colbert, 25/3/1884 (Q2 1884 Vol 3a pg286 - Edmonton, Middlesex)
-   Married Jane Hagger 14/06/1915 (Q2 1915 Vol 1c pg350 - Bethnal Green, Greater London, Middlesex)
-   Died 15/05/1942 (Q2 1942 Vol 4a pg190 - Essex SW)


Military Service
British Army WWI medal rolls index card 1914 – 1920
Regiment or corps: Duke of Cornwalls Light Infantry Labour Corps
Regiment #: 34321, 93114
Theatres/Campaigns were Havre (22/11/1915 to 9/11/1916). France (10/11/1916 to ?).
British War Medal.  Victory Medal
Lc/Cpl - 13th Duke of Cornwall's Labour Corps. Or Duke of Cornwalls Light Infantry, Labour Corps  Unit 156.  COY A,C,I 611/17 - Regimental # 34321, 93114. Victory = LC/101B56 Page5681
Attestation Address: 44, 3 Colts Lane, Bethnal Green
Demob Address: 24, Tent Street, Bethnal Green

Census appearances
1891 (5th April) Census:
Horace ‘J’ Chamberlain, aged about 7, born in New Beckenham Kent.
Living with Mother Elizabeth Chamberlain aged about 31, Widow and Head of the house – Occupation ‘Ironer’.  Born Isle of Wight Hampshire
Ecclesiastical Parish St Anns, Civil Parish Tottenham
(Class: RG12; Piece: 1073; Folio 17; Page 28;)

1901 and 1911 to follow....

[Jamesharrislondonuk]

Annie Chamberlain
-   Born quarter 1 1881 (Q1 1881 Vol 3a pg414 - Edmonton, Hertfordshire, Middlesex, Essex)
-   Married Ernest William Pimm 17/12/1904 (Q4 1904 Vol 3a pg905 - Edmonton, Hertfordshire, Middlesex, Essex)
-   Died 18/10/1964

Annie and Ernest’s daughters:
-   Ethel Marguerite Pimm (married Bert O’Hare)
-   Cissie Elizabeth Pimm (married Emil Dotter Morgan)
-   May Louise (married Cecil Roger Evans)


Business Directory - Dressmaking shop
1937 to 1938 Mrs A Pimm owned a costumier business with Iris G Oram located at  57 Windmill Hill, Enfield

Electoral Register
1939 57B Windmill Hill, Enfield (Annie Pimm and May Louise Pimm)
1945 to 1956 57B Windmill Hill, Enfield (Annie Pimm and May Louise Pimm)

It appears that after Ernest’s death the business was run by someone else and Annie and May lived at the address probably above the shop...(It’s an assumption)



I’ve got a little bit more information in my notes somewhere which i’ll add here and on www.ivyonline.co.uk.

Ray and JJ once again thanks so much for your help with this 

[Daisypetal]

Hi,

Welcome to RootsChat 


Regarding the 1891 death that you mention, I think this could be the burial for that Arthur,

St Mary, Islington
May 6 1891
Arthur CHAMBERLAIN
Age:  37
Buried by friends.


I think he could be this Arthur CHAMBERLAIN,

1891 RG12/148  f.98  p.57  Islington
51 Orpingley Rd

CHAMBERLAIN
Arthur      Head    37    Potman  Inn     Bucks Linslade       
Jane         Wife    28                                "          "
Ellen        Daur     7    Scholar             London Holloway
Lily           Daur     5        "                          "          "
George     Son     4       "                           "          "
Hilda       Daur      2                                   "          "
Elizabeth SCOTT Mother  W  65                      Oxon Banbury
John LOYNES    Boarder  S    29  Carpenter    London St Marylebone


Arthur Joseph CHAMBERLAIN married a Mary Jane SCOTT in 1882 and then a Mary Jane CHAMBERLAIN widow (father's name John SCOTT) marries a John LOYNES in 1897. The above lodger?

If that is correct although it doesn't help find your Arthur John CHAMBERLAIN's death I think that sometimes negative info can also be helpful.

Regards,
Daisy


 

[Mabel Bagshawe]

If Horace was born in Ireland (despite the birth registration in Edmonton) I think I'd decipher your notes as pointing to the Fermoy barracks near Cork

[Mabel Bagshawe]

There is a marriage in 1877 that cuold be of interest

Dublin North, Ireland, Vol 17, p480

Amonst the spouses are

Elizabeth Margaret Calbert or Colbert
Arthur Richard Chamberlain


also a possible for Horace on 1911 - his surname is mistranscribed on Ancestry

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWFH-TJD

[RayDen]

well done Mabel, he is a railway porter so I think it is him.  He is shown as a visitor so I presume he knew either the husband or wife of the household, a family called Wraight ( the wife maiden name Bevan).

[jennifer c]

1901 census Frederick W Wright also worked for GER Railways.

Jennifer