Elizabeth Martha/Phoebe Terr(e)y/Williams b.c. 1842-1844

[Pheno]

Hi, I have the marriage of an Elizabeth Martha Williams widow on 8 July 1866 to William George Bond at St. Mary, Lambeth on which her father is stated as John Terrey, carpenter, deceased.

I don't need any further information on William Bond but I am trying to trace the antecedents of Elizabeth Martha Williams née Terrey.

I haven't been able to trace a Williams/Terrey marriage so looked for her in earlier censuses and found this in 1851(HO107 Piece 1570 Folio 158 Page 3) where she is the 7 year old daughter of carpenter John Terrey born Lambeth about 1844.  So far so good although in later censuses following her marriage to William Bond she states her birthplace as Westminster.  However this John Henry Terry and wife is alive and kicking in 1871 (RG10 Piece 654 Folio 25 Page 42) which doesn't tie in with the fact that Elizabeth states at her marriage in 1866 that her father is deceased - I know they often don't put deceased when they are but how often do they put deceased when they aren't?

Also this Elizabeth Terrey seems to have been registered as Elizabeth Phoebe Terrey rather than Elizabeth Martha in June qtr 1844 so perhaps she is nothing to do with my Elizabeth Martha.

As I can't find either this Terrey family or Elizabeth Martha in 1861 I looked for the death of a John Terrey before 1866 and came up with this death of a John Henry Williams Terrey reg Sep qtr 1861 Hemel Hempstead vol 3a pg 206. Is it just coincidence that he has both names Williams & Terrey?

I haven't bought any certificates yet as only found this info today but wondered if anybody was able to find my Elizabeth Martha prior to her marriage to William George Bond in 1866 which is about the only thing I am certain of.

Thanks, Pheno

[Pheno]

Hi, its just occurred to me that as I don't know the age at death of the John Henry Williams Terrey 1861 Hemel Hempstead he may not be Elizabeth's father as I had assumed but maybe an illegitimate child named after her father John Henry with the Williams added to identify the reputed father and her maiden name of Terrey.

Just niggled by the fact that she states she is a widow at the 1866 marriage which, if to cover up illegitimacy she needn't do as the possible son John Henry had died 5 years earlier.

Probably no others either as there were never any children living with her and William George Bond after their marriage.

Has anybody got access to records that would show further info on the John Henry Williams Terrey death without purchasing the certificate.

Pheno

[rosie99]

The 1861 GRO index is John Penry Williams Terry

Rosie

[Pheno]

Thanks Rosie but oh blast I had thought that angle might be going somewhere 

Ok back to the drawing board and looking for an Elizabeth Martha birth/baptism, Elizabeth Martha in 1861 and her marriage to a Williams then.

Regards, Pheno

[ciderdrinker]

Hi
You're right she's not the daughter of John Henry Terrey and Pheobe as that lady married 27.3.1869 to Charles Homer Snegler at Lambeth, and she's there on the 1911 census with that name.

There are some entries on the Westminster rate books in the 1890s for Williams Terrey and that does seem the way to go.

There's this in 1861 Feller Lane Holborn
Mary Killick 75 widow no occupation London
Anne E Osborne sister in law married 45 household servant St Saviours Surrey
Elizabeth M Williams 18 bookfolder granddaughter London.

It does look as though there is something going on as there is no previous marriage for her to a Mr Williams.

Ciderdrinker

[Pheno]

Thanks Ciderdrinker.  Another dead end.

I've just looked online and the only possible? baptism for an Elizabeth Martha in Westminster between 1840-45 is for an Elizabeth Martha Tanner.

She only made her mark at marriage in 1866 but this doesn't necessarily mean she was illiterate although William Bond did sign so not as if the incumbent was completing register before the event.

Could Terrey and Tanner be interchangeable?

Thanks, Pheno

[groom]

There is this baptism, but perhaps the dates are a bit too early?

Elizabeth Terrey
born 13th June 1840 baptised 12th July 1840
mother: Rhoda Maria
father: John  (deceased)
Address Well Street,
St George, Camberwell.

[Pheno]

Putting a request for help on here doesn't half make you analyse your data.

I've just noticed that on the banns for her marriage to William Bond she was named as Lizzy initially, although later crossed out and amended to Elizabeth, but this might be yet another avenue to pursue.

Also, included on their 1891 census entry (RG12 Piece 132 Folio 59 Page 44) I've just noticed that there is a 3 year old male child (translated on Ancestry as William Blades but looks as if it could be William Charles to me)  born Pancras but without any indication of relationship.  Wonder if this might be a clue.

Thanks groom, think this might be a bit too early and she has consistently stated Westminster as place of birth although I know I went off track with the Elizabeth Phoebe Terrey born Greenwich earlier.

William Bond died 1899 so I am going to see if I can track her down in 1901 although I am sure I would have pursued this before.

Pheno

[Ladyhawk]

William Bond died 1899 so I am going to see if I can track her down in 1901 although I am sure I would have pursued this before.

Is this her death entry?

Jun 1891 Pancras   1b   131
Elizabeth Martha Bond age 49   

ADDED

I haven't been able to trace a Williams/Terrey marriage

There's an 1858 Williams/Terry marriage but father’s name is Charles occ Carpenter

This looks to be Charles Terry on 1851/61c but I can’t place a dau. named Eliza with them

RG 9; Piece: 134; Folio: 18; Page: 35
Charles Terry 46 Carpenter, Elizth Terry 45,
John George Terry, 19, Emma Jane Terry 9, Arthur Charles 4 (not sure if Charles is his middle or surname)

HO107; Piece: 1500; Folio: 354; Page: 23
Charles Terry 39 Carpenter , Elizabeth 36, Edward 10, Joseph G 9, Alice Mary 4

23 Aug 1858 The Parish Church Paddington
Eliza TERRY f/a spinster res. Paddington Green, she made her mark (x) f Charles carpenter
George James WILLIAMS f/a carpenter & Joiner Res. Old Church Street F George James Williams master mariner

A possible death entry but no age given, so can't say if it might be GJW Jnr. or Snr. or a child

Jun 1860 Pancras 1b 40
George James  WILLIAMS