Author Topic: Have you ever..felt a little uncomfortable..  (Read 16295 times)

Offline angie29

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Re: Have you ever..felt a little uncomfortable..
« Reply #45 on: Friday 05 February 16 22:54 GMT (UK) »
Some of you may have read another thread on RootsChat..

A person I had never heard of, but who turns out has relatives in common with me, was asking about a close relative of mine who had an unusual middle name which was not a family name, and could it be something to do with illegitimacy as she knew there was some scandal in the family?

I knew why my relative had been given the name that she had and there was no scandal attached at all.

I researched more and found another relative in the same family in prison in the 1911 census, then I found the transcript of the trial at the Old Bailey with the judges summing up and sentence.

This took me about 30 minutes.

I contacted the original enquirer privately to tell them I'd found what she was probably looking for.

There had never been any need to cast aspersions about my closer relative, alive within living memory.

It wasn't difficult to find the truth.

I'm sure you've all heard of Chinese Whispers?

If the truth is told there is less chance of half truths and stories being made up that could hurt the relatives of someone else, who was not involved.


Offline iolaus

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Re: Have you ever..felt a little uncomfortable..
« Reply #46 on: Friday 05 February 16 22:56 GMT (UK) »
Until the last of my grandfather's siblings died at the end of 2014, we always listed my Great Grandparent's marriage a year earlier than it actually was because nobody knew whether any of their children were aware of the fact their parents had married 5 months before my Great Aunt was born. 

I told my father that his mother had, another, illegitimate child and that she was pregnant with his elder sister when his parents married - his only question was did I think the child given up for adoption was his dad's as he was married to someone else at the time.

Of course he was the one that pointed out Annie, his eldest half sister, who was also born before his mother married - when I was younger he'd said about having two half sisters, and I knew my grandfather had been widowed and remarried - so I'd assumed the half sisters were from him - nope, one from each.  I was pretty sure he wouldn't have been dismayed by it.

After I told him about child no. 2 he did say he remembers hearing about another child before her marriage but he thought it was a stillborn son - so in that case she married when pregnant with her fourth child conceived out of wedlock

Offline rachelralph

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Re: Have you ever..felt a little uncomfortable..
« Reply #47 on: Friday 05 February 16 22:56 GMT (UK) »
i have no idea what she meant. i assume seeing as she remembers the man involved as an older man when he had made his millions (i dont know how!) she maybe felt even though he had passed away that someone might be watching us? i didnt ask too much!  :o

i have indeed recorded it all, every single last word. 2 reasons, one it took me a LONG time to find them all and their relevant criminal records, plus the children and all the storires that went with it all. and two it is important to remember that no one is going to be alive forever. i know this information because ive worked hard at finding it, but what if no one else is bothered about finding it out for another 100 years? by then some of the documents may have been destroyed. there are a few people still living who were children or teenagers at the time of these dubious siblings. they have told me many stories because i dug and prodded and nagged. if i hadnt done this they wouldnt have told me. if i dont record it somewhere these people will pass without these stories being told.

i have one who worked aboard the queen mary. in my quest to find him (never have found his death record) i posted on a QM forum. i had to expalin that i knew what kind of character he was, and i knew that some things people might remember about him would not be favourable. people are always wary of telling the story in case they offend. i know for a fact that there are people still alive who know things but wont say incase they upset me. i have always said if they dont tell it, it will be lost forever.
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Offline cocksie

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Re: Have you ever..felt a little uncomfortable..
« Reply #48 on: Friday 05 February 16 23:29 GMT (UK) »
I record all.
Reporting or sharing with other family members who profess interest is a minefield though - the same piece of shared information unleashes a whole gamut of responses: delight, interest, upset, denial.
It was a quandary and have made the decision that, if asked, I provide what I have found - no comment, no assumption, no notes, no discourse - just the document, newspaper clipping, transcript etc. What happens from then on is up to the "asker".
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Offline Rosinish

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Re: Have you ever..felt a little uncomfortable..
« Reply #49 on: Friday 05 February 16 23:43 GMT (UK) »
if someone asks for information then we should do them the honour of supplying the information as fully as we can.

I do my genealogy as "my" interest & yes it's great to be able to pass on the family tree, however.....If I find something such as a relative "charged & convicted" of manslaughter in regard to his own mother (which I have) and his mother was a direct 1st cousin of my father, that is recorded in "my" tree but no, I don't pass it on, unless I know for sure that the content will not be relayed to living relatives (close relatives who I know to be alive or descendants of the person who commited the crime) who may not have know although in this instance the person was an only child but I have had no need "yet" to give this info. to anyone apart from my own brother who has a keen interest in our ancestry but doesn't have the time to do what I do as he is tied up with family commitments.

I didn't set out to find this but came across it by pure chance on "google" as the family have a very unusual surname. I knew where the family were from but didn't know much about them so was idly surfing with the surname & area when I found this info. much to my horror & disbelief.

However, had my father been alive when I did find it.........no, I would not have told him as he was too old to be given such shocking news about such a close relative & I would not have hurt my own father in that respect.

If anyone asks for a copy of my family tree, they get the usual BMD's & only significant "good news" items I have.

Annie

South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline DavidG02

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Re: Have you ever..felt a little uncomfortable..
« Reply #50 on: Friday 05 February 16 23:45 GMT (UK) »
At times I have had to ask those questions which may have provoked a reaction. e.g. my grandfather was named as a co-respondent in a divorce case. This along with open family stories about another possible sibling made me open to asking the question.

As my family member already knew he was a right royal 'censored' I felt the information wouldn't have caused a great reaction.

If the family member had continually expressed him in a glowingly positive manner , and there were no stories of extra marital siblings, I may not have asked. It would have been filed away in my pile of information and passed onto my son .

 I think this is also a reason why I do filter what I find. This first half of my project is for my sons benefit. He will be given the warts and all bits as it doesn't emotionally affect him more than it would others.

So the question could also be asked: Do we filter information depending who we are telling it to?
Genealogy-Its a family thing

Paternal: Gibbins,McNamara, Jenkins, Schumann,  Inwood, Sheehan, Quinlan, Tierney, Cole

Maternal: Munn, Simpson , Brighton, Clayfield, Westmacott, Corbell, Hatherell, Blacksell/Blackstone, Boothey , Muirhead

Son: Bull, Kneebone, Lehmann, Cronin, Fowler, Yates, Biglands, Rix, Carpenter, Pethick, Carrick, Male, London, Jacka, Tilbrook, Scott, Hampshire, Buckley

Brickwalls-   Schumann, Simpson,Westmacott/Wennicot
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Offline DavidG02

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Re: Have you ever..felt a little uncomfortable..
« Reply #51 on: Friday 05 February 16 23:46 GMT (UK) »
snap Rosinish :)
Genealogy-Its a family thing

Paternal: Gibbins,McNamara, Jenkins, Schumann,  Inwood, Sheehan, Quinlan, Tierney, Cole

Maternal: Munn, Simpson , Brighton, Clayfield, Westmacott, Corbell, Hatherell, Blacksell/Blackstone, Boothey , Muirhead

Son: Bull, Kneebone, Lehmann, Cronin, Fowler, Yates, Biglands, Rix, Carpenter, Pethick, Carrick, Male, London, Jacka, Tilbrook, Scott, Hampshire, Buckley

Brickwalls-   Schumann, Simpson,Westmacott/Wennicot
Scott, Cronin
Gedmatch Kit : T812072

Offline Rosinish

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Re: Have you ever..felt a little uncomfortable..
« Reply #52 on: Saturday 06 February 16 00:38 GMT (UK) »
snap Rosinish :)

I hope we are not related  ;D

The instance was not in this country I'm glad to say but plenty of newspaper cuttings on the net.

Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline Guy Etchells

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Re: Have you ever..felt a little uncomfortable..
« Reply #53 on: Saturday 06 February 16 08:55 GMT (UK) »

I do my genealogy as "my" interest & yes it's great to be able to pass on the family tree, however.....If I find something such as a relative "charged & convicted" of manslaughter in regard to his own mother (which I have) and his mother was a direct 1st cousin of my father, that is recorded in "my" tree but no, I don't pass it on, unless I know for sure that the content will not be relayed to living relatives (close relatives who I know to be alive or descendants of the person who commited the crime) who may not have know although in this instance the person was an only child but I have had no need "yet" to give this info. to anyone apart from my own brother who has a keen interest in our ancestry but doesn't have the time to do what I do as he is tied up with family commitments.

I didn't set out to find this but came across it by pure chance on "google" as the family have a very unusual surname. I knew where the family were from but didn't know much about them so was idly surfing with the surname & area when I found this info. much to my horror & disbelief.

However, had my father been alive when I did find it.........no, I would not have told him as he was too old to be given such shocking news about such a close relative & I would not have hurt my own father in that respect.

If anyone askes for a copy of my family tree, they get the usual BMD's & only significant "good news" items I have.

Annie


This reply reinforces my belief that we as family historians have a moral duty to be open with the information we discover.
I will explain why in a minute but first a disclaimer.

I am drawing my conclusions based on very minimal facts given in the original posting above. We must be aware that further research into the facts of the case and the relationships within the family could possibly cause a change in my conclusions in limited circumstances.
I also assume the writer is open to discussion of the posting as she brought it up in an open forum.

In the above situation the research has come across a case of manslaughter but we are not told whether it was voluntary manslaughter or involuntary manslaughter; on reading the post I get the feeling the writer relates the case as if it was the man murdered his mother, but that is not what the court found.

Due to the conclusion the writer reached she then decides she would have withheld the information from her father to prevent her father knowing about it.

However there is a high possibility he already knew of the incident. He could, for all we know, have been bottling it all up inside him for years and have been thankful for the opportunity to have an open discussion about it without the fear of judgement or distaste. He may even hold some information (but had not been given the chance to provide it) which could have proved the innocence of his cousin.
We don’t know.

I cases like this I think of my mother in law who gave birth to a stillborn child. It was all hushed up her family would not talk about the birth and she was left grieving alone for over 25 years. When talking to me about her daughter’s family tree she mentioned she had given birth to a stillborn baby. When I added him to the tree she was in tears, not of distress but joy that someone acknowledged her baby she had been grieving for in silence for so many years.
I was later told it was like a huge weight had been lifted from the family, everyone had been so frightened of causing hurt they could not see the hurt and damage their silence was causing. My mil took the lack of discussion as a sign of family disapproval.

It is not easy but secrets do more damage in the long term than openness.

Cheers
Guy
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