Author Topic: Henry Davy/Davey death circa 1852 Australia? (possibly SA, VIC or NSW)  (Read 15375 times)

Offline juliaanna1701

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Re: Henry Davy/Davey death circa 1852 Australia? (possibly SA, VIC or NSW)
« Reply #72 on: Tuesday 09 February 16 05:06 GMT (UK) »
And if someone has any ideas and wouldn't mind giving their expert opinion, completely random but can anyone decode what the word is after the name 'MARY TREVENNAN' - she is 55 and living in the same house as another ancestor of mine, but I can't determine what the word nor the cross mean. I can see she was born 'in county' (Cornwall) but I'd love to figure out that word to help me understand the rest of the family situation? It is the 1841 census.

But back on HENRY DAVEY, he def docked in Port Adelaide with his family so he didn't die at sea; i will check prison records to see if a davey is recorded soon after 1848.

Offline juliaanna1701

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Re: Henry Davy/Davey death circa 1852 Australia? (possibly SA, VIC or NSW)
« Reply #73 on: Tuesday 09 February 16 05:07 GMT (UK) »
And if someone has any ideas and wouldn't mind giving their expert opinion, completely random but can anyone decode what the word is after the name 'MARY TREVENNAN' - she is 55 and living in the same house as another ancestor of mine, but I can't determine what the word nor the cross mean. I can see she was born 'in county' (Cornwall) but I'd love to figure out that word to help me understand the rest of the family situation? It is the 1841 census.

But back on HENRY DAVEY, he def docked in Port Adelaide with his family so he didn't die at sea; i will check prison records to see if a davey is recorded soon after 1848.

Could it stand for 'Ind' as in Independent means?

Offline Spike H

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Re: Henry Davy/Davey death circa 1852 Australia? (possibly SA, VIC or NSW)
« Reply #74 on: Tuesday 09 February 16 05:17 GMT (UK) »
Yes it does, transcribed as follows
"Hosking Row,1,Mary Trevennen,55,Independent,In county,
Elizabeth Edwards,45,Baker,In county,"

Don't get too hung up about non-conformists in Cornwall. They still generally registered baptisms, you can see the separate search item on the OPC menu.

This link gives the coverage by Parish. It took a while to get to all of the parishes.
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/coverage/non-conformist-coverage/
UK: Lee, Swift
CON: Davey, Harding, Hocking, Rule, Whinnen
AUST: McIntosh

Offline majm

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Re: Henry Davy/Davey death circa 1852 Australia? (possibly SA, VIC or NSW)
« Reply #75 on: Tuesday 09 February 16 05:19 GMT (UK) »
......

Thanks JM,

Does that mean that even if he didn't die in NSW they would hold the record? It is pre federation, but as far as I can see the family never ventured (or at least stayed) in NSW - but again that is pure speculation going off the facts. Would you recommend purchasing MARY ANNE SMITH'S marriage to HENRY LUKE in 1853 cert or her death cert from NZ? And also, does the fact that ELIZABETH DAVEY + RICHARD HENRY EDWARDS were married by a Weslyan minister mean anything at that time? They would then be non-conformists back in cornwall, yes? Just trying to get everything clear.

And thanks to the help from Cando + Essie, much appreciated your help in my search :)

In your subject heading you have written (possibly SA, VIC or NSW) so I have been looking through my NSW offline resources.   Now you are saying that the family did not venture into NSW.   

Re the denomination for Elizabeth's marriage.   There was NO Established Church in the Colonies.  It may be that the family were Wesleyan back in the UK, but you may also find that they married in C of E in the UK because actually that was not against Wesleyan Methods....   

Re what records are held by NSW BDM ....  well, for example they do not hold all the extant parish registers, but from 1810 the clergy of all denominations were meant to forward (transmit) summary information to the NSW Chaplains.   Not all clergy did so, and not all the transmitted records arrived, and not all transmitted records are extant, and at different times between 1810 and 1856 (commencement of NSW BDM civil registrations) changes to the admin system meant there were changes in where the clergy (of the various denominations) who were not NSW Chaplains transmitted their summary records.

The geographical territory that was administered by NSW governors and then by NSW Parliament was adjusted quite a number of times prior to Federation.

Tasmania (VDL) hived off in 1825
Swan River Colony 1829
South Australia 1836
New Zealand 1840
North Australia 1846 (did not last)
Victoria 1851
Queensland 1859

Re what certificate to purchase .... well for any NZ document I think I would go for the printout option, but I would first check with the NZ BDM webpage as to what would actually be recorded on an NZ death registration at that time.   Of course, a death registration does not give you first hand information, and if the informant was a family member, a generation younger than the deceased, then you are relying on second or third hand info provided at a time of grief.

Re the Victoria BDM not yet purchased, perhaps Mary Ann may have wanted to be known as a widow, rather than actually being a widow in the sense that her husband had died.  So perhaps that info may be unreliable too.  Perhaps the clergy conducting that marriage may have been a little scant on the info recorded too.  On the other hand, it should have information about the children of that marriage to Henry DAVEY....  It may well be that Henry and Mary Ann became separated sometime sooner than you have first considered.    It is important to remember that regardless of who physically fathered a child, if a woman was married to Mr XYZ, then it was that man who was legally the father.   It is also important to remember that children's surnames matched that of the name that Mum was known by.  And in that era, a married Mum was Mrs XYZ, until she chose to became known as Mrs ABC .... 

Perhaps best to continue with the Baked beans meals and do some ponderings before you rush out and spend another $24 or so and go without a week's supply of groceries.

Cheers,  JM

 
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Offline juliaanna1701

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Re: Henry Davy/Davey death circa 1852 Australia? (possibly SA, VIC or NSW)
« Reply #76 on: Tuesday 09 February 16 05:37 GMT (UK) »
Sorry JM, yes I did say NSW in the title as a last resort, so thank you for being thorough and checking those records - I am starting to see that anything is possible for this family, including splitting up and HENRY hiking to another state. If only they had less common names!

That makes sense RE pre federation records - that is very helpful just to know, I hadn't realised I was treating them like we do now as seperate states so I guess anything pre-fed you need to take with a grain of salt - from a family history point of view, Australia wasn't the best at keeping records in the 19th century :) And it will be very helpful to know the dates when the states broke off, thank you very much JM.

And thank you spike for your input - she seems to be the head of the household so I figured it must stand for 'independent' - just trying to determine whether the husband of the women below was still alive in 1841 as he is not listed in the census as living with the family - the search continues for both branches.

I have decided to buy the print out of the MARY ANN + HENRY LUKE marriage in VIC - fingers crossed it has something useful to use!

Offline juliaanna1701

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Re: Henry Davy/Davey death circa 1852 Australia? (possibly SA, VIC or NSW)
« Reply #77 on: Tuesday 09 February 16 05:42 GMT (UK) »
Okay - thoughts?
Sorry Sarah I don't know how to transcribe this cert accurately?

Offline Spike H

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Re: Henry Davy/Davey death circa 1852 Australia? (possibly SA, VIC or NSW)
« Reply #78 on: Tuesday 09 February 16 06:12 GMT (UK) »
Doesn't answer all the questions, unfortunately.

The Minister hasn't asked the date of death of Henry Davey. Perhaps as has been suggested the trouble with Henry is that he's not dead yet. Hence the marriage in Vic then off to New Zealand to live?

What's with the 3 children. I gave up on Martha on day 1, but that still leaves four.

The parents line up with several of the published trees.

She says she was born in Cornwall. Most of the trees say Shoreditch, Middlesex.
UK: Lee, Swift
CON: Davey, Harding, Hocking, Rule, Whinnen
AUST: McIntosh

Offline Essie

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Re: Henry Davy/Davey death circa 1852 Australia? (possibly SA, VIC or NSW)
« Reply #79 on: Tuesday 09 February 16 06:32 GMT (UK) »
Only three daughters went to VIC with their mother...Elizabeth, Christiana and Mary Ann.
EDITED, though I did wonder if Emma and Elizabeth were  from a first marriage of Henry?

Emma Mary was still in SA in 1876.

Essie

Offline Spike H

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Re: Henry Davy/Davey death circa 1852 Australia? (possibly SA, VIC or NSW)
« Reply #80 on: Tuesday 09 February 16 06:35 GMT (UK) »
Yes, but she was asked how many children, living and dead did she have.


(adding, that we have seen the bpts for Emma and Elizabeth on OPC and they both have Mary Ann as the mother)
UK: Lee, Swift
CON: Davey, Harding, Hocking, Rule, Whinnen
AUST: McIntosh