Author Topic: Henry Davy/Davey death circa 1852 Australia? (possibly SA, VIC or NSW)  (Read 15378 times)

Offline Essie

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Re: Henry Davy/Davey death circa 1852 Australia? (possibly SA, VIC or NSW)
« Reply #81 on: Tuesday 09 February 16 06:43 GMT (UK) »
I think some certificates for 'Martha' to know if she was a DAVEY afterall and make the 'three'.

Essie

Offline juliaanna1701

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Re: Henry Davy/Davey death circa 1852 Australia? (possibly SA, VIC or NSW)
« Reply #82 on: Tuesday 09 February 16 10:09 GMT (UK) »
i have the Cornwall OPC baptism records that I assumed where Emma Mary + Elizabeth Davey's:
Day Month   09-Jul
Year   1837
Parish Or Reg District   Torpoint
Forename   Elizabeth
Surname   DAVEY
Sex   
Father Forename   Henry
Mother Forename   Mary Ann
Residence   Torpoint
Father Rank Profession   Miner

Day Month   10-Jan
Year   1836
Parish Or Reg District   Torpoint
Forename   Emma Mary
Surname   DAVEY
Sex   
Father Forename   Henry
Mother Forename   Mary Ann
Residence   Torpoint
Father Rank Profession   Miner

And my thinking would be that the third daughter was CHRISTIANA DAVEY who was born on the 08 JUL 1848 on the Sibella coming to Australia as noted in the ship's diary and also registered upon arrival?
Christiana Mary Davey
Birth Date:    8 Jul 1848
Birth Place:    Aboard Sabella
Registration Place:    Adelaide, South Australia, Australia
Father:    Henry Davey
Mother:    Mary Ann Smith
Page Number:    80
Volume Number:    2

There is also Mary Ann Davey who was born + registered soon after again in SA:
Name:    Mary Ann Davey
Birth Date:    7 Sep 1850
Birth Place:    Reedy Creek
Registration Place:    Adelaide, South Australia, Australia
Father:    Henry Davey
Mother:    Mary Ann Smith
Page Number:    110
Volume Number:    3

There is also a marriage listed on the IGI for HENRY DAVEY + MARY ANN SMITH for 22 SEP 1834 in Torpoint, Cornwall.

Could it be possible that MARY ANN SMITH only counted her unmarried daughters as 'children' on her marriage cert to HENRY LUKE as they might have still been dependent on her?

Thank you all though for your help so far and theories!

Offline Spike H

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Re: Henry Davy/Davey death circa 1852 Australia? (possibly SA, VIC or NSW)
« Reply #83 on: Tuesday 09 February 16 10:56 GMT (UK) »
Did you see for yourself the IGI marriage?
Family Search is not working for me, but GenUKI says that there is NO IGI coverage of this (Torpoint) Parish. I thought I saw that FindMyPast had the marriage records pre 1873, but I now can't find a ref. I wonder what site David's sub was for?

Your Elizabeth Edwards in C41, was her husband Nicholas?
UK: Lee, Swift
CON: Davey, Harding, Hocking, Rule, Whinnen
AUST: McIntosh

Offline DavidG02

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Re: Henry Davy/Davey death circa 1852 Australia? (possibly SA, VIC or NSW)
« Reply #84 on: Tuesday 09 February 16 11:04 GMT (UK) »
Record set on FindMyPast suggests Cornwall Marriage Records. It is listed as Parish Antony Place Antony. Fine print says Transcriptions:  Cornwall Family History Society

Juliaanna has said on the other thread that this is an old name for Torpoint.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=741013.0

Quote from: juliaanna1701
Thank you! I know ANTONY is the name of the parish before it was TORPOINT - they are interchangeable from the data on the OPC. Does the record provide any other info at all? Anything would be super helpful :)

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Offline juliaanna1701

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Re: Henry Davy/Davey death circa 1852 Australia? (possibly SA, VIC or NSW)
« Reply #85 on: Tuesday 09 February 16 11:05 GMT (UK) »
Did you see for yourself the IGI marriage?
Family Search is not working for me, but GenUKI says that there is NO IGI coverage of this (Torpoint) Parish. I thought I saw that FindMyPast had the marriage records pre 1873, but I now can't find a ref. I wonder what site David's sub was for?

Your Elizabeth Edwards in C41, was her husband Nicholas?

No - that Elizabeth Edwards married Richard Edwards and had a son, my ancestor, Richard Henry Edwards in approx 1834 in Redruth. I'm trying (at the same time as this search) to find her maiden name and why Richard Edwards disappears from any census records - i'm guessing he died.

The info on the TORPOINT marraige comes from another rootschatter who found it for me - quote =
"I did the same and you are right.

I accessed my subscription site and I see a marriage in a place called ANTONY (antony is right next to torpoint and the two are almost interchangeable it seems in records). Others may know of it

22.9.1834 (for the marriage of HENRY DAVEY + MARY ANN SMITH)

Sorry I forgot that please mind my typo about the IGI.

Offline Spike H

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Re: Henry Davy/Davey death circa 1852 Australia? (possibly SA, VIC or NSW)
« Reply #86 on: Tuesday 09 February 16 11:24 GMT (UK) »
Yes, the Cornwall FHS handed all their records over to FindMyPast. But that's ok if you've seen the marriage. The rest of us will have to wait until the next free weekend!
UK: Lee, Swift
CON: Davey, Harding, Hocking, Rule, Whinnen
AUST: McIntosh

Offline majm

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Re: Henry Davy/Davey death circa 1852 Australia? (possibly SA, VIC or NSW)
« Reply #87 on: Tuesday 09 February 16 22:24 GMT (UK) »
Yes, but she was asked how many children, living and dead did she have.


(adding, that we have seen the bpts for Emma and Elizabeth on OPC and they both have Mary Ann as the mother)

that's not exactly the question she was asked  .... and


Could it be possible that MARY ANN SMITH only counted her unmarried daughters as 'children' on her marriage cert to HENRY LUKE as they might have still been dependent on her?

Thank you all though for your help so far and theories!

We need to read the actual heading for the column that gives us 3 children.     The three children are those of her marriage with Henry. (Children by each former Marriage).  The clergyman ought to have recorded their names and ages, and ought to have recorded the date of Henry's death.  He did not.   Perhaps he was acting with restraint, ie to record without causing embarassment to Mary Ann as the register entry was to pass into the hands of unknown clerks in the civil BDM, clerks who may not have the training of a clergyman to be discreet. 

However, Mary Ann told the clergyman that there are 3 children by her former marriage, and those three are living.   It is not three dependent children (that was not the question asked of her).  It is not any child born outside of that marriage. 

So, this is the opportunity for Mary to speak privately with the clergyman, and to be recorded as a widow, and to marry the man that may have fathered her younger baby/babies.  That is of course speculation on my part, but I am quite sure that clergy (across the centuries) have a broad and open mind to variations in the domestic relationships of their congregations.  I am sure that until Queen Victoria's husband died, that the word 'widow' included any female with children and without a male to support those children.  I am sure that is how the word 'widow' has been used in NSW from settlement 1788 until NSW Divorce laws of the 1870s....  I am also sure that if Henry had say returned to the UK, or had moved on to say VDL, NSW, VIC, NZ or South Africa, or perhaps had caught gold fever and gone to California in 1849 that he will be difficult to isolate from any other Henry Davey.    Mr Google says Prince Albert died 14 December 1861.     

May I suggest these three children are the most logical :  the two children who boarded the ship with Henry and wife, and the baby born during the voyage.   

Cheers, JM 
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Offline juliaanna1701

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Re: Henry Davy/Davey death circa 1852 Australia? (possibly SA, VIC or NSW)
« Reply #88 on: Tuesday 09 February 16 22:31 GMT (UK) »
Morning everyone,

I have had a very helpful email from the Torpoint archivist for the OPC who I emailed in the hope she could help me with anymore details about HENRY DAVEY + MARY ANN SMITH. She has sent back a fantastic email that might be able to open up a few more doors -

Hi Anna,

Thank you again for yours. What a complicated family with far too many
possiblities!

Firstly, the marriage.  It did not take place at Torpoint.  Torpoint was
split off from the parish of Antony in the early 1800s when a new church
was built, Torpoint having been just a chapel of Antony before then.  As
the dockyard on the Devon side expanded Torpoint became a popular place
for dockyard workers to live as there was the Torpoint ferry to take
them over the River Tamar to work and to Plymouth.  The new church was
built for this rather unruly influx. However, Antony Church remained the
burying ground for the parish, and the church with old traditional ties
to forbears. Henry Davey and Mary Ann Smith married there 22 September
1834, but I have no further details.  This is characteristic of earlier
registers which only record simple names.

Very close in date is the marriage of Richard Davey to Selina Jewell
28.6.1835 and the marriage of Richard Davey to Ann Trathern 2.10.1836. 
Whether this is a case of the same person rapidly widowed and remarried,
or two different Richards I can't say, but I did wonder whether there
might be a family connection to your Davey (see Richard Davey latter on.)

I have looked to see whether there was a chance to identify your family
in the Torpoint area.  I have checked some local Daveys, in particular
the Davey family of Sheviock where Henry seems to have been a family
name but, as far as I can tell, their Henry's are all accounted for.

You mentioned the two baptisms in Torpoint and these are Elizabeth
(possibly Ann as middle name) b.1836 and Emma Mary b.1837.  The perhaps
most interesting detail on the baptismal record is that the father was a
miner.  I have checked the originals of these records to be sure thay
have been transcribed fully and accurately - and they have.   However,
Torpoint is not really a mining area.  There were mines nearby at
Menheniot - silver and lead - which certainly drew miners from Cornwall
to them but my initial reaction would be that there's a good chance that
a miner in Torpoint came from another area.  The Torpoint area and east
Cornwall was a more agricultural area - it had a mild climate which
produced early fruit and vegetables fertilised with night soil from
Plymouth - and there was a constant demand for foodstuffs, woollen cloth
and meat to supply the naval dockyards.

The great mining area was around the Redruth area and further west,
where the granite ridge down the centre of Cornwall bore copper, tin and
rarer minerals like cobalt.  When times were hard Cornish miners
emigrated with their skills to areas with similar geology - Australia,
South America and South Africa.


Offline juliaanna1701

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Re: Henry Davy/Davey death circa 1852 Australia? (possibly SA, VIC or NSW)
« Reply #89 on: Tuesday 09 February 16 22:31 GMT (UK) »
CONTINUTED -

I have looked for a possible Henry Davey elsewhere, as I'm sure you have
also.  I am kite-flying a bit, but thought you might find it useful to
see what I have come up with - you may know it all already, or know why
it is not useful but . . .

The census (which you can access using FreeCen) has 2 entries that
seemed interesting:-

1841 Census
Piece: HO107/141/3 Place: Penwith -Cornwall Enumeration District: 8
Civil Parish: Camborne Ecclesiastical Parish: -
Folio: 44 Page: 19
Address: Tuckingmill

           Surname         First name(s)         Sex         Age   
  Occupation         Where Born         Remarks
           DAVEY         Mary         F         30         M Fuzer     
  Cornwall
           DAVEY         Henry         M         20         Copper Miner
          Cornwall
           DAVEY         Christina         F         65         Ind     
     Cornwall
           DAVEY         Ann         F         12  Cornwall
           DAVEY         Emma         F         5  Cornwall
           HOCKING         Mary         F         1  Cornwall

1851 Census
  Piece: HO107/1915 Place: Redruth -Cornwall Enumeration District: 1a
Civil Parish: Illogan Ecclesiastical Parish: All Sts. Tuckingmill
Folio: 357 Page: 9 Schedule: 33
Address: -

           Surname         First name(s)         Rel Status       
Sex         Age         Occupation         Where Born         Remarks
           DAVEY         Christiana         Head         W F       
75         Supported By Daur & C          Cornwall - Gwennap
           DAVEY         Mary         Dau         U         F 41       
Safety Fuze Maker          Cornwall - Illogan
           HOCKING         Mary D.         Grndau         U F       
11         Safety Fuze Maker          Cornwall - Camborne

(Apologies if the formatting is a mess at this point - but this gives
you the detail to check against.)

  Now this gives you some interesting bits and pieces.  The first point
is that the 1841 census did not give accurate ages but used
approximations, so 20 could cover 20-24. This location is right in the
heart of the mining area.

Could Emma be Emma Mary?  Could Ann be a scribal age- error and really
be Elizabeth(?+Ann) or merely another family member of some sort.  And
where is Mary Ann Smith?

At first I wondered whether Mary aged 30 & 41 could be Henry's wife but
I think she is Christina's daughter and Mary D Hocking is her
illegitimate daughter working with her in the fuze (= fuse) factory.  I
think Mary D died June 1855.

Assuming Christina/Christiana was her mother I then tried to check
Mary's birth.  What I have come up with is:-

John Davey (a miner) = Christian Tregilgas 22.5.1793 at Gwennap.
They had:-
Mary 1794 Gwennap
Christian 1798 Crowan
Jenefer 1801 Gwennap
Mary 1809 Illogan
John 1813 Illogan
Richard 1815 Camborne
Henry 23.3.1818 Illogan.

You can confirm this on the C-OPC site - Christian is sometimes listed
as Cristian.  I realise this would make Henry very young to get married
but it is not impossible.  It is also possible that he was baptised a
while after birth. If you are interested in this tree it would give you
a generation further back.

However, I have been unable to find any members of this family in later
life - except perhaps that John Davey who dies at Tucking Mill in 1840
aged 77 seems a possible husband for Christiana.  However, a missing
miner often means they have either moved right out of Cornwall to
another area of the country - often to the coal mining areas of northern
England - or have emigrated.  So, did the men emigrate?

I suspect you already have the record of Henry Davey and Mary Ann Smith
who emigrated on the Sibella from Plymouth 6-4-1848 and arrived via
London in Southern Australia 16.7.1848, having had Christiana Davey
during the voyage.  I think the names of Mary Ann Smith and the daughter
Christiana (after her grandmother?) on this immigration record make
strong connections between the Tucking Mill family and the Torpoint
baptisms and this family.

Two points - where was Henry Davey between the birth of the first 2
children and the third?  Its an oddly long gap.  Did he emigrate first
and then return for the family?  Maybe you can find that out? Secondly,
is there a record with Henry's age on it in Australia? Does it agree
with the birthdate?  If it does not, then it does not invalidate matters
because people did lie about their ages.  My ggrandfather and his wife
gave their ages on the wedding certificate as 23 & 19 but were actually
32 & 16!

I did find a probate record in Australia for a Henry Davey d.9.5.1877
listed as a miner, late of Dunolly, and with probate granted to Marian
Davey - I did wonder whether this might be Mary Ann Davey.

I'm sorry this doesn't really sort your family out but I hope it is of
some interest.

Thoughts? And thanks Spike - I have a feeling that MARY ANN SMITH was not exactly the most godly and honest women now...