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Author Topic: Richard Hill - born in Yorkshire - ~1810  (Read 6931 times)

Offline Beatles78

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Richard Hill - born in Yorkshire - ~1810
« on: Thursday 03 March 16 01:14 GMT (UK) »
Hello all! I have a brick wall that I can't knock down. My 3x Great Grandfather, Richard Hill, born about 1810 in Yorkshire, England, died on 11/16/1900 in Fountain County, IN. He married Sarah Ann Chapman on 6 Jan 1843 in Park County, IN and had 3 boys, George C. Hill born 1843 (my ancestor), Thomas Hill born 1845 and James Hill born 1848. I do not know the names of Richard's parents. I found a death record for him stating "don't know" for his parents, and unable to find an obituary.  I know he served an apprenticeship as a butcher in the London area prior to immigrating and ending up in the US. Earliest records I can find in the US is when he got married to Sarah. I have a marriage record that doesn't list parents. I am unable to find an exact city of birth, or an immigration record... Not certain he immigrated first to the US or via Canada first. My father, also Richard Hill, did a yDNA test with no help with our surname. Any help would be tremendously appreciated as this man is my surname line.

Thank you,
Stephanie

Offline [Ray]

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Re: Richard Hill - born in Yorkshire - ~1810
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 03 March 16 06:54 GMT (UK) »
"The wise man knows how little he knows, the foolish man does not". My Grandfather & Father.

"You can’t give kindness away.  It keeps coming back". Mark Twain (?).

Offline dave the tyke

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Re: Richard Hill - born in Yorkshire - ~1810
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 03 March 16 23:35 GMT (UK) »
Hi Stephanie,
There is something about your family that makes me wonder if you are looking at 2 different Hill families. I find it hard to believe that a family from Yorkshire would re-locate to London in the early 1800's.
Because the Poor Law Unions had to support a family if difficulties were experienced (perhaps the main wage earner became ill or died) a re-settlement order had to be obtained before a move to a different Parish could be contemplated. This stipulated that should difficulties arise then the issuing Parish would take financial responsibility for the family.
Movement away from a person's township let alone County was not a common occurrence and certainly not by the working classes.
I would seek out a birth of Richard Hill in London if you have not already done so. If Richard was definitely born in Yorkshire then I would be inclined to discount the butcher in London.
If you are tied into both locations then the occupation of the father is the key - a soldier perhaps?

Dave
Bland, Greenwood Bland, Ellis, Benn, Woodhead, Priestley, Illingworth, Lightowler, Platts, Boys, Bradley, O'Hara, Hall<br /><br />Areas -  North Bierley, Northowram, West Bowling, Horton, Shelf, Allerton, Queensbury, Haworth, Ovenden, Halifax, Luddenden, Midgley, Elland, Littleborough

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Offline warncoort

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Re: Richard Hill - born in Yorkshire - ~1810
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 05 March 16 01:11 GMT (UK) »
OP ran this query as Beatles781 on Ancestry back in 2013,Richard's exact birth date varies from 1810-1813,no documents show place of birth,she has not traced his arrival in US or Canada,marriage record is marked"unofficial".If Richard was a butcher,would he become a farmer?
As i mentioned on Ancestry,there is no point searching further in England until you have exhausted US records.
Butcher Westmorland and Lancashire
Barton Westmorland and Yorkshire
Trethowan,Reeves Middlesex
Halsall,Green,Charters,Chatterton Lancashire
Smith, Moger, Maxfield Wiltshire
Woods,Speechley and Coles Huntingdonshire
Gibson,Blanks,Monk,Fokes Essex

Offline Beatles78

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Re: Richard Hill - born in Yorkshire - ~1810
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 05 March 16 15:27 GMT (UK) »
Thank you for your replies!

Dave,

That is a very interesting observation and i never thought of that. The bio of him though in his town in Indiana listed this as a fact....and said he was a Farmer and Stock Trader.  And they list where his house was (i've been there) so it is the same Richard Hill. The article is attached for you to look at. I've seen a few documents listing his birth area as Yorkshire as well. Here's one publication and his marriage record.  If it is the case where he was born in Yorkshire area (why would documents say that if it wasn't true?) and if he did serve an apprenticeship in London area...what are my next steps? i am unable to find any parents names, so the idea of finding out the occupation of his father is not possible. Note that his death record says "don't know" as far as what his parents names were.

Warncort,

Well honestly, i don't know what other records in the US i CAN uncover. I've tried looking for immigration, and i've seen R Hill, Richard Hill documents but without a birth date or even with an age listed, there is no way i can confirm if that is my guy or not.  I've been down to Parke County, IN (where he got married), Montgomery County (where i've been in the farm house he actually built in early 1850s which is still original and standing) and i have his marriage record (only one that seemingly exists even though "unofficial") and his death record. Unable to locate an obituary on him, of course.

Thank you for your assistance!
Stephanie

Offline sandrastocks54

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Re: Richard Hill - born in Yorkshire - ~1810
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 05 March 16 16:31 GMT (UK) »
Hi Stephanie
Now that you mention Richard was a farmer, there are three possibilities on Familysearch for his emigration,

One emigrated in 1838, aged 26, occupation Farmer, intended place of future residence Canada.
One emigrated in 1843, so is less likely to be your Richard.  This one had a wife and child, was a farmer, aged 33, intending to settle in the USA.
The third emigrated in 1841, aged 28, on the Bayen Hope, but no details of his occupation are given.

https://familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&query=%2Bgivenname%3Arichard~%20%2Bsurname%3Ahill~%20%2Bbirth_place%3Aengland~%20%2Bbirth_year%3A1810-1813~&collection_id=1849782

I don't know how you would decide if one of these was your ancestor, unless there are other records available in the USA showing more details.

Sandra

Offline sandrastocks54

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Re: Richard Hill - born in Yorkshire - ~1810
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 05 March 16 16:55 GMT (UK) »
Stephanie

Have you seen the 1900 US Census which shows Richard's birth as March 1811?  He has been married 64 years.

It also shows his year of emigration as 1840 but strangely says he has been in the US for 40 years.

Also says he is Naturalised - have you looked for any Naturalisation records in Indiana ? (I'm sure you have, so please forgive the question).

There is only one census which mentions Yorkshire, none mention London.

It does make you wonder whether Richard didn't actually know who his parents were or where he was born - so maybe the month and year of birth are also a guess on his part.

Sandra

Offline Beatles78

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Re: Richard Hill - born in Yorkshire - ~1810
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 05 March 16 17:38 GMT (UK) »
Hi Sandra!

Very interesting. Well I can rule out the one who immigrated in 1843 as he got married on January 6 of 1843 in Indiana. His birthdate is also in question. It's 1813 on this document but on his grave it's March 11, 1810 and I've seen it as March of 1811 as well, etc.

The one who immigrated in 1838 sounds interesting. I know on the 1900 census it was put down that he immigrated in 1840. I know to always take census data with a grain of salt tho.

Any thoughts?

Thank you for your help!
Stephanie

Offline Beatles78

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Re: Richard Hill - born in Yorkshire - ~1810
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 05 March 16 17:47 GMT (UK) »
Hi Sandra! 

Yes, haha. That's the census I just alluded to. Different birth years make it hard and other census data says different ages too. And yes the immigration question and years light in the US don't match up... And neither does the years married! They got married in 1843, that is 57 years married not 64.

No I have not found naturalization papers... Where would I go about looking for that?

And yes interesting too... Maybe he didn't know his parents names. Maybe that's why it said "don't know" on his death record as his wife didn't know.

Are obituaries mandatory? His wife has one when she died 9 years later but I have found none for Richard when I have researched.

Thank you!
Stephanie
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