Patrick and Grace Frazer NSW

[rosball]

I was thinking that perhaps Grace wasn't married to Patrick FRAZER (which may explain the adoption) and that birth may have been registered under her surname. 

But I have searched NSW BDM  for births of Arthur  * with mother Grace in June 1911 and no luck.  (well there is an Arthur E GEELAN with parents Samuel and Grace, but none with just a mother Grace).

Ros

[Neil Todd]

I went looking for her birth and couldn't find it, no wonder, it looks more like 19 years, sad but not the right Grace.

Mystery couple aren't they.

Neil

[Neil Todd]

Another possibility is the Death of GRACE in 1911. The Father could still have been Patrick FRAZER, but not still in Sydney at the time. The child may not have been named at the mothers death and named at the baptism

Wildcard maybe
33 Females with first name GRACE died 1911.
Neil

[majm]

What does Arthur give as his birthplace on his marriage certificate?

Excellent question 

May I add to that question?

.......My grandfather was again baptised when he was 17 as Arthur Murray.

You say that Arthur was baptised a second time, that is very very unusual, and perhaps against Church regulations.

From the first baptism who were the sponsors/Godparents
From the second baptism, what denomination, which parish, and who were the sponsors/Godparents

When Arthur married:

What surname was he using at that time
What information did he give about his parents
What information did he give about himself

When and where was Arthur married

Who were the witnesses

The smallest piece of information has often found the biggest piece of the jigsaw when the RChatters drill down using their resources and individual skills.  So please don't be worried if we do not seem to be drilling down on Patrick and Grace.   There's many a backdoor beckoning in many a brickwall.

Cheers,  JM

 

[majm]

Did Arthur have a 'middle' name?
Was he born 14 June 1911?
Did he serve during WWII?
Did Florence and husband # 3 live Burwod Road Concord?

There is a digitised file freely available at the National Archives of Australia for the above chap.
http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/search/index.aspx     He was an apprentice plumber before joining up.

Cheers,  JM

[CAS81]

Did Arthur have a 'middle' name?
Was he born 14 June 1911?
Did he serve during WWII?
Did Florence and husband # 3 live Burwod Road Concord?

There is a digitised file freely available at the National Archives of Australia for the above chap.
http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/search/index.aspx     He was an apprentice plumber before joining up.

Cheers,  JM

Yes this is him. I have all this already.
I never noticed the apprentice plumber part, that is quite interesting.
We are seeing if we can get the a copy of the original baptism from 1911 and 1928

What does Arthur give as his birthplace on his marriage certificate?

Excellent question 

May I add to that question?

.......My grandfather was again baptised when he was 17 as Arthur Murray.

You say that Arthur was baptised a second time, that is very very unusual, and perhaps against Church regulations.

From the first baptism who were the sponsors/Godparents
From the second baptism, what denomination, which parish, and who were the sponsors/Godparents

When Arthur married:

What surname was he using at that time
What information did he give about his parents
What information did he give about himself

When and where was Arthur married

Who were the witnesses

The smallest piece of information has often found the biggest piece of the jigsaw when the RChatters drill down using their resources and individual skills.  So please don't be worried if we do not seem to be drilling down on Patrick and Grace.   There's many a backdoor beckoning in many a brickwall.

Cheers,  JM

 

Ok I have looked properly on items I have.

Baptismal card for 1911-Arthur Burton Frazer 14/7/1911 St Luke's Concord
no other info as yet,hopefully we can get that.

Baptism Certificate 1928 - Arthur Burton Murray 27/7/1928 b:14/6/1911
Son of Arthur William Murray and Florence Murray. no sponsors. St Mary's Concord.

Arthur married 1934 -St Mary's Concord.
 William and Florence are named as his parents .There is also a declaration by the priest stating that Arthur was adopted by William and Florence. The priest is E.Bond ,he also did the 1928 baptism.
Witnesses are N.Buckley and JM Thomson.

We have already found a lot of family info its now this piece of the puzzle ie Patrick and Grace that we hope to solve.

Thanks CAS

[jorose]

Well, the "Burton" part is new to this thread, and potentially interesting.

http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/family-history/family-history.aspx
shows an "Albert G Burton" was born in Ashfield district in 1911, to Grace, father's name not given.

Is it possible his name was changed? If the address was c/o Mrs Hornery at the 1911 baptism that may suggest he was given up at birth, potentially things were arranged with his mother before the birth.

[rosball]

Well-found Jorose 

And he was born on 24th May so very close to June (and before Arthur's baptism    )

regards,
   Ros

[CAS81]

Well, the "Burton" part is new to this thread, and potentially interesting.

http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/family-history/family-history.aspx
shows an "Albert G Burton" was born in Ashfield district in 1911, to Grace, father's name not given.

Interestesting!! I never thought to look for the surname burton,ill look in to that today.

Florence had a brother Arthur so it could be possible my ggrandfathers name was changed.

Another piece of info is we also have a stat dec from a relative of Florence's stating Arthur was fostered from birth by Florence.

But why would his name be changed from birth & then he be baptised with a surname that has nothing to do with the family? The plot thickens

Thanks jorose