Author Topic: JOHN NICOL perth help finding parents  (Read 12825 times)

Offline AncesStory

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Re: JOHN NICOL perth help finding parents
« Reply #36 on: Wednesday 13 April 16 20:18 BST (UK) »
Speculation
John named his first son William – could he be following  traditional naming pattern as Annie suggested and John’s father would be named William? Several trees on ancestry have John as the son of a William Nicol and Magdaline Moncrieff from Drone. BUT they all have John’s death as 1850 in Dunkeld? Have you discounted the 1850 death record – perhaps all the other trees are wrong since they are all “sourced” from one tree on Ancestry? The 1849 record from Greyfriars Perth seems to be correct – it ties in with the 1841 Scottish census, where John is noted as a grocer. Maybe he is John Nicol born Dron, Perthshire in 1787 who died in Perth July 23 1849?

Ann Macdonald, John’s wife may be the Ann McDonald baptized  28 April 1793 • Tibbermore, Perthshire, Scotland to Donald Macdonald(d 10 JUN 1809 • Tofthouses, Tibbermore)    and spouse Wainwood McDonald(Birth ABOUT 1756; Death 28 JUN 1821 • Huntingtower, Tibbermore ). This couple married 3 Feb 1776 at Tibbermore,Perth,Scotland. John Nicol and spouse Ann Macdonald named a daughter Wainwood, after Ann’s mother? Also, Ann Nicol, (mother in law of George Clark, spouse of Jane/Jean Nicol 1871 census), was born Tibbermore?

John Nicol may be a sibling of the following Nicols in Perth, also children of William Nicol and Magdaline Moncrieff. William Nicol married Magdalen Moncrieff at Dron in Perthshire 30 May 1784. (William Nicol in this Parish and Magdaline Moncrieff in the parish of Fortevoit were contracted, proclaimed and married).Most of their children seem to have been born in Arngask, Perthshire but John  is oldest and may have been born in Forteviot where his mother was living begore her marriage or wherever William Nicol is from – Dron??. Check the births in Forteviot and Dron (06 May 1787 • Dron, Perthshire, Scotland)? For details on Arngask see http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/place/16463
http://www.scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/ordnance-survey-map-series/list/os6inch/perthshire/arngask

James Nicol  - merchant in Perth. Perth directory 1845 shows him as James Nicol, grocer, 133 South Street, Perth. Perth Burgh Burial Registrations, 1794-1855  James Nicol, merchant, died of typhus, 10 March 1848 at Perth and buried 13 March 1848 at Greyfrairs Cemetery, Perth, Burgh, Perthshire.

Robert Nicol (see my previous post on wills) Born Arngask, Perthshire. 27 NOV 1791 to William Nicol and Magdalen Moncrieff. 1841 Census – general merchant, Middle Church burgh, High Street, Perth. Age 45 b 1796. (NB a daughter is named MAGDALENE – perhaps after his mother Magdalene Moncrieff?)  1845 Perth directory shows him as a shipmaster, 89 High Street, Perth. 1851 Ship owner in York Place, Perth. Age 59 b 1792 Arngask Perthshire. 1861 census. Age 69 b 1792 Arngask, Perthshire. Retired shipowner, Newton Street, Blairgowrie, Perthshire. Death 19 JAN 1865 • 10 York Place Perth, Perthshire.

William Nicol: Birth 19 JAN 1794 • Fordiehill Arngask PerthshireKinross Death 15 FEB 1863.  1851 census -Newfargie, Arngask, Fife, Scotland. Married to Catherine Niven. Farmer of 130 Acres Arable and 50 land of Moor.  Married 2nd wife, Nancy Gentle, 05 Jun 1857 at Perth,Perthshire ,Scotland. 1861 Census 1861 -Newfargie Farm, Arngask, Fife, Scotland. Occupation: Farmer of 200 Acres. Employing 6 Labourer and 1 boy. Death record: Willian Nicol married to Nancy Gentle, age 69, occupation farmer. Cause of death Dropsy 18 months, son Peter Nicol was present (eldest son to 1st wife) . Buried in Greyfriars Cem Perth

David Nicol – Birth 11 Feb 1798 at Fordiehill(Fordell??) Arngask Fife & Kinross. 1845 Perth directory shows him as a vintner, at 14 Meal Vennel, Perth. 1851 census – vintner at 14 Meal Vennel, Perth. Age 53 b 1798 Kinross, Fife.Death record (Perth Burgh burials) Death Date:21 Apr 1854 Burial Date:25 Apr 1854 David Nicol age 56y,occupation: Grocer,Address: Meal Vennel. Cause of death: Apoplexy.

NB In the Perth directory of 1845 there is a Robert Nicol (NOT THE SHIPOWNER), a clerk, at BAROSA STREET, Perth. Isn’t that the address given on Ann Macdonald Nicol’s death certificate?
DUFFUS of Edinburgh, Scotland/Murray/Coulter/Anderson/Cauvin/McGillivray/Carstairs
FALLEN, /Dunbartonshire & Partick /Cherry/Main/Gallacher
SCOTT of Gladsmuir/Pencaitland East Lothian
STEVEN of  Caithness, Edinburgh, Scotland/Campbell/Calder/McManus/Waugh/Hoy/Cadzian
McKENZIE of Glenisla, Forfarshire/Farquharson/Robertson/Jack/McNicol/Tosh

Offline Mollyrobz

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Re: JOHN NICOL perth help finding parents
« Reply #37 on: Wednesday 13 April 16 21:43 BST (UK) »
Yes Ann's address on her death cert is given as 13 BAROSSA STREET PERTH

Molly

Offline AncesStory

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Re: JOHN NICOL perth help finding parents
« Reply #38 on: Thursday 14 April 16 01:07 BST (UK) »
Yes Ann's address on her death cert is given as 13 BAROSSA STREET PERTH

Molly
Not sure if this is a connection with your family or not but a Robert Nicholl, army pensioner, lived at Barossa Street, Perth from 1841-1881  censes -
1841
Piece: SCT1841/387 Place: Perth -Perth Enumeration District: 2
Civil Parish: Per East Chrch-Lndwd Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: Perth - East Church
Folio: 6 Page: 1
Address: Barrosa Street West Side

    NICOLL   Robert   M   48   Uk Army Pensioner    Outside Census County (1841)       
    NICOLL   Marjory   F   40       Perth       
    NICOLL   Helen   F   4       Outside Census County (1841)       
    NICOLL   Marjory   F   1m       Perth
1851
Robert Nicoll, age 56, Head of house, b Kinettles, Forfarsire 1795.
Address: Barrosa Street Perth  Perthshire
Occupation: Chelsa Pensioner
1861
Robert Nicoll, age 66, Head of house, b Kinettles, Forfarsire 1795.
Address: 7 Barrosa Street Perth  Perthshire
Occupation: Chelsa Pensioner
1868 Perth electoral Register
Robert Nicoll, pensioner, 7 Barossa St, Perth.
1871
Robert Nicoll, age 76, Head of house, b Kinettles, Forfarsire 1795.
Address: 7 Barrosa Street Perth  Perthshire
Occupation: Chelsa Pensioner
1881
Robert Nicoll, age 86, Head of house, b Kinettles, Forfarsire 1795.
Address: 7 Barossa Street Perth  Perthshire
Occupation: Pensioner

Robert was married to Marjory Brysson*, (bap 28 Feb 1799,  Errol to Catherine Murray and William Bryson) at St Maddoes, Perth, 4 Nov 1834. Children include Helen, born 1837 at Auchterhouse, Forfarshire  and Marjory, born 1840, Perth.

* (also known as MAY/Mary)

I did look but could not see any other Nichol families in Barossa Street, Perth. Hope this is not a red herring!
DUFFUS of Edinburgh, Scotland/Murray/Coulter/Anderson/Cauvin/McGillivray/Carstairs
FALLEN, /Dunbartonshire & Partick /Cherry/Main/Gallacher
SCOTT of Gladsmuir/Pencaitland East Lothian
STEVEN of  Caithness, Edinburgh, Scotland/Campbell/Calder/McManus/Waugh/Hoy/Cadzian
McKENZIE of Glenisla, Forfarshire/Farquharson/Robertson/Jack/McNicol/Tosh

Offline Mollyrobz

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Re: JOHN NICOL perth help finding parents
« Reply #39 on: Thursday 14 April 16 08:17 BST (UK) »
I hope it's not a red herring either! :)

What do you think should be my next step in regards to trying to connect the information? I'm not really sure where to start

Molly


Offline Mollyrobz

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Re: JOHN NICOL perth help finding parents
« Reply #40 on: Thursday 14 April 16 10:01 BST (UK) »
AncesStory :)

Also, if this robert nicol IS related, would that in fact make my John Nicol NOT the son of WILLIAM NICOL and MAGDALINE MONCRIEFF? There was a lot of info there and I'm trying to take it all in :D

Molly

Offline ecksdochter

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Re: JOHN NICOL perth help finding parents
« Reply #41 on: Thursday 14 April 16 11:08 BST (UK) »
Hello Molly,
     Ann's daughter Jane, 1861 Census at 176 SOUTH ST, PERTH.
       George Clark    20  Boot Maker.
       Jane Clark       24  Wife.
       Ann Met Clark    1  Daughter. All born Perth. (Met? Might be Mac or McD)
     SP has a Birth for an Ann McDonald Clark, 1859, Perth & Death 1861, Perth aged 2yrs.
     
     1881 Census. 13 BAROSSA ST, PERTH.
       George Clarke 40 Shoemaker.
       Jane       "     43
       Helen     "     19
       Mary A    "    15
       Jane        "    13
       Jessie      "    12
       Margaret  "      3
       Jane Spiers      1  Cousin.

     Names & addresses all tally, so no doubt at all that the 1871 Census previously posted is the correct Ann Nicoll. Looks like she was still living with daughter Jane & son-in-law George Clark(e) at the time of her death.

     DONALD - DANIEL. I believe these names were sometimes interchangeable in Scotland. Useful link here re: Scottish forenames
               www.whatsinaname.net

               Regards,     Dod.
     
"Scotsman! I am not a Scotsman -- I am a Fifer."

Offline Mollyrobz

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Re: JOHN NICOL perth help finding parents
« Reply #42 on: Thursday 14 April 16 13:42 BST (UK) »
So you think I should maybe buy Jane Nicol/Clarks death cert? Perhaps that would shed some light on her dad?

Molly

Offline Rosinish

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Re: JOHN NICOL perth help finding parents
« Reply #43 on: Thursday 14 April 16 13:47 BST (UK) »
So you think I should maybe buy Jane Nicol/Clarks death cert? Perhaps that would shed some light on her dad?

Molly

Most definitely as you won't find that anywhere else but also only as long as the informant knew those details.

Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline Rosinish

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Re: JOHN NICOL perth help finding parents
« Reply #44 on: Thursday 14 April 16 13:48 BST (UK) »
A look for Wills on SP would be an idea too....I haven't looked though.

Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"