Author Topic: Did cathedrals keep registers?  (Read 2097 times)

Offline barryd

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Re: Did cathedrals keep registers?
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 03 May 16 22:50 BST (UK) »
Here is a bio for Cicely.

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=66106348

Scroll down for Edwin on his wife's bio.

Offline LizzieW

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Re: Did cathedrals keep registers?
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 03 May 16 23:40 BST (UK) »
OK, I'll check my records tomorrow for ancestor's name.  It was a long way back though, 1600-1700s from memory.

Offline LizzieW

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Re: Did cathedrals keep registers?
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 04 May 16 12:03 BST (UK) »
Philip.  This is what I have.  He was my 11 x g.grandfather.

William Dameron, born about 1505 in Westerfield, Ipswich, the eldest son of John Dameron (1478-1548) and Joan Mynter (abt 1482-1564).  He died in Westerfield in 1558 and was buried on 1 March 1558 in Westerfield.  He was a church warden and a yeoman.  I have to say that his will states he was a yeoman, no mention of being a church warden, but I don't suppose he thought that was important.  I visited the church in Westerfield and, (I can't find my notes), I think his name must have been shown on a board there as being a church warden.

His will made on 8th February 1558 talks about his lands and tenement dwellings (which seem to be houses rather than tenements as we think of them), some of which he'd rented out.  One was Westerfield Manor which he acquired in 1552 and passed to his eldest son, John (my 10 x g.grandfather).  In his will he mentions his sons John and George, his daughters Agnes, Elizabeth, Mary, his nieces Johane (who became my 9th g.grandmother and from a Chancery File  in 1601, she was considered mentally incompetent, fatua et ideota and because of this she had given lots of her goods and chattels away!)  and Cecilie Dameron (daughters of his son John), his godson Edmond (son of George), his godson Robert Mynter, his godson William Baker, and finally his wife (but no name given).  Witnesses were George Payne, Robert Medowe, Christopher Barricke and one other.  Probate was given to John Dameron on 6 October 1559.

As his eldest son was born about 1531, I assume William must have married around 1529 or so but the parish registers, or Boyds Marriage Indexes for Suffolk,  don't seem to start until about 1539.  I did contact Suffolk archives a few years ago but they couldn't find a marriage in their records.

 


Offline Beeonthebay

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Re: Did cathedrals keep registers?
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 04 May 16 13:02 BST (UK) »
Manchester Cathedral's are online on Ancestry.  When I first found one of mine marrying there I thought it can't be these working class folk marrying in a big posh place like that but apparently it was cheaper from my understanding, something about only paying one lot of fees?  I didn't really get into the reasoning.......
Williams, Owens, Pritchard, Povall, Banks, Brown.


Offline stanmapstone

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Re: Did cathedrals keep registers?
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 04 May 16 13:35 BST (UK) »
Manchester Cathedral's are online on Ancestry.  When I first found one of mine marrying there I thought it can't be these working class folk marrying in a big posh place like that but apparently it was cheaper from my understanding, something about only paying one lot of fees?  I didn't really get into the reasoning.......

Manchester Cathedral was a Parish Church. There were outlying chapels within the parish, but a ceremony at one of the chapels was liable to a double fee – one to the chapel, and one to the mother church at the centre http://www.manchestercathedral.org/history/archives

Stan
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Offline philipsearching

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Re: Did cathedrals keep registers?
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 04 May 16 15:04 BST (UK) »
Philip.  This is what I have.  He was my 11 x g.grandfather.

William Dameron, born about 1505 in Westerfield, Ipswich, the eldest son of John Dameron (1478-1548) and Joan Mynter (abt 1482-1564).  He died in Westerfield in 1558 and was buried on 1 March 1558 in Westerfield.  He was a church warden and a yeoman.  I have to say that his will states he was a yeoman, no mention of being a church warden, but I don't suppose he thought that was important.  I visited the church in Westerfield and, (I can't find my notes), I think his name must have been shown on a board there as being a church warden.

His will made on 8th February 1558 talks about his lands and tenement dwellings (which seem to be houses rather than tenements as we think of them), some of which he'd rented out.  One was Westerfield Manor which he acquired in 1552 and passed to his eldest son, John (my 10 x g.grandfather).  In his will he mentions his sons John and George, his daughters Agnes, Elizabeth, Mary, his nieces Johane (who became my 9th g.grandmother and from a Chancery File  in 1601, she was considered mentally incompetent, fatua et ideota and because of this she had given lots of her goods and chattels away!)  and Cecilie Dameron (daughters of his son John), his godson Edmond (son of George), his godson Robert Mynter, his godson William Baker, and finally his wife (but no name given).  Witnesses were George Payne, Robert Medowe, Christopher Barricke and one other.  Probate was given to John Dameron on 6 October 1559.

As his eldest son was born about 1531, I assume William must have married around 1529 or so but the parish registers, or Boyds Marriage Indexes for Suffolk,  don't seem to start until about 1539.  I did contact Suffolk archives a few years ago but they couldn't find a marriage in their records.

My first thought is to post the info on the Suffolk board (but don't hold your breath!).

If you find one of the children's baptisms with mother's first name, or if you find a burial for XYZ Dameron widow of William, I think that's all you'll get from parish registers.

There is a slim chance that one of William's children left a will naming the mother (or cousins with surnames which could give a lead).

Otherwise, it's a trawl through any surviving (and available) manorial or other local records - but they wouldn't usually record marriages of ordinary folk.

As parish registers were not instigated until 1538, I have to bow to you in admiration for having identified John Dameron and Joan Mynter.  Yay for you!

Philip
Please help me to help you by citing sources for information.

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Offline philipsearching

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Re: Did cathedrals keep registers?
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 04 May 16 17:15 BST (UK) »
As a general resource – I did a quick search online for registers for cathedrals in England founded before 1837
I haven’t worked out which of these were parish churches
(please use the "quote" feature to correct my errors or omissions):

Bristol - Bristol Record Office incomplete
Canterbury -
Carlisle -
Chester - Ancestry 1687-1812
Chichester -
Coventry -
Derby -
Durham - Durham County Record Office from 1609
Ely - Cambridge University Library from 1690
Exeter - Exeter Cathedral Archives from 1593
Gloucester -
Hereford - Hereford Cathedral Archive incomplete
Lichfield - Lichfield Record Office from 1660
Lincoln
London - St Paul's -
Norwich - Ancestry marriages 1697-1754
Oxford - Christ Church
Peterborough
Ripon
Rochester - FreeReg from 1633 incomplete
Salisbury - Salisbury Cathedral Archive from 1564
Southwell Minster  (?parish of Southwell St Mary)
Wells -
Westminster Abbey - London Registers set 1 vol 9 ISBN: 1861501250 – from 1655
Winchester - FreeReg – baptisms & marriages from 1599 incomplete; FindMyPast - burials
Worcester - Worcestershire Archives from 1693
York Minster – Genuki – marriages and burials incomplete, baptisms see Skaife 1881 https://yorkminster.org/treasures-and-collections/resources-for-family-history.html

Please help me to help you by citing sources for information.

Census information is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline LizzieW

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Re: Did cathedrals keep registers?
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday 04 May 16 17:56 BST (UK) »
Philip

I might put the info on the Suffolk board sometime although I think it's probably a lost cause, especially as Suffolk archivists couldn't find anything.  I do have one baptism of the youngest son 16 April 1543, so I'll have a look at that again, but I doubt it shows his mother.  Women didn't seem too important then.  ::)

John Dameron was Lord of the Manor at her burial, his wife was named as Old Joan, Lady of Westerfield.  So information was available about him.  Joan actually died 6 years after her son William (the one with a missing wife).

Offline Beeonthebay

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Re: Did cathedrals keep registers?
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday 04 May 16 18:12 BST (UK) »
Manchester Cathedral's are online on Ancestry.  When I first found one of mine marrying there I thought it can't be these working class folk marrying in a big posh place like that but apparently it was cheaper from my understanding, something about only paying one lot of fees?  I didn't really get into the reasoning.......

Manchester Cathedral was a Parish Church. There were outlying chapels within the parish, but a ceremony at one of the chapels was liable to a double fee – one to the chapel, and one to the mother church at the centre http://www.manchestercathedral.org/history/archives

Stan

Thanks Stan, as always  :)
Williams, Owens, Pritchard, Povall, Banks, Brown.