1851 census help please

[worth]

Hi all
Can someone help me find this family in 1851, I'm having no look at all:

Thomas Heatlie aged about 30 born 1819 Midlothian (not 100% sure) Head
Elizabeth Heatlie m/s Ferguson aged 29 born 1821 Midlothian Sct Wife
Married 1841 August 1 New Monkland, Lanarkshire

They had at least 5 children before 1851 but only the first 3 were actually registered as Thomas and Elizabeths children, so not sure if Thomas the father is still living in 1851, the children after 1851 all had his name on their marriage, death certificates but until I find them as a family in 1851 I don't know if they were his as they were not registered.

Children:
James Heatlie born 5 Jan 1842 Old Monkland Lanarkshire birth registered
John Ferguson Heatlie born 16 Jan 1845 Airdrie (New Monkland) birth registered
Thomas Heatlie born 17 Feb 1847 Bothwell birth registered
Elizabeth Heatlie born 1850 Lanarkshire birth NOT registered, but Thomas Heatlie is down as father on both marriage and death certs.
Robert Campbell Heatlie b 1851 Coatbridge, Lanarkshire birth NOT registered, Thomas Heatlie is down as father deaceased, on both marr and death records.

Elizabeth is widowed in 1861, her future husband is living with her as a lodger.
Any help finding them would be awesome and thanks in advance.

[ecksdochter]

Hello worth,
     Could this be the same family? Do you know Thomas' occupation?
     1851. Eglenton Iron Works, Kilwinning, Ayrshire.
       Thomas  Kettley  30  b  Dalkeith, Midlothian. Coal Miner.
       Elisabeth    "        29  b       "                "
       James        "          9  b  Airdrie, Lanarkshire.
       John           "          5  b      "              "
       Elisabeth    " 18mons b     "               "
       Hugh Martin  18 Lodger b Kilwinning.
               Regards,    Dod.
   

[doddsie4]

      On Scotlands People, on the parish births, there is James HATELY, born 5th Jun 1842 at Airdrie, plus John Ferguson HATELY born 16 Feb 1845, and Thomas HEATLY born 2 May 1847 Bothwell.     Parents are Thomas & Elizabeth, and these dates of birth (or possibly baptisms) agree with several public trees.     

      According to some public trees on An...try, Elizabeth Ferguson (b 1821) died at the Union Poorhouse, Linlithgow on 1 Jun 1885.    ...Robert Campbell Heathlie was born (or baptised) 25 Nov 1851 at Dalry, Ayrshire.

      Thomas Heattlie (the father, b 1819) married Elizabeth Ferguson at New Monkland in 1841, and I think a tree has Thomas's death in 1847 at Bothwell.     

      The census in the post immediately above looks very good.    I think it is spot on.

[worth]

Thankyou both for your help, the 1851 census find is the correct one, Thomas was a coalminer, no wonder I couldn't find them, I wasn't even looking in Ayeshire xx

[Forfarian]

They had at least 5 children before 1851 but only the first 3 were actually registered as Thomas and Elizabeths children, so not sure if Thomas the father is still living in 1851, the children after 1851 all had his name on their marriage, death certificates but until I find them as a family in 1851 I don't know if they were his as they were not registered.

Don't read anything into the absence of a birth or baptism record before 1855, which was the year when statutory civil registration of births, deaths and marriage began.

Before that, the only records were the various churches' registers of baptisms, banns and burials. Not every event was recorded, and not all the registers have survived.

If the marriage certificate says their parents were Thomas Heatlie (or some variant) and Elizabeth Ferguson, you are fairly safe to assume that to be the case.

[worth]

Thanks Forfarian, Elizabeth Heatllie is a widow in 1861 (I checked the original just in case) at home in Lanarkshire with 3 of the children Elizabeth b. 1850, Robert born 1851 and Isabelle b.1854.  Elizabeths future husband is also a lodger in her house in 1861. There is 1 child missing who was born in 1855 called Barbara Heatlie, Thomas and Elizabeths youngest child. I know she survived as she married in 1875 and died in 1942. Could someone please have a look and see if they can find her, she would be about 6/7 years old. Last request I promise xx

[MonicaL]

Worth, I can't see an 1855 birth for a Barbara. Struggle also finding her in 1861. There is this entry however in 1871 which I wondered if this was her:

Barbara Hately, 18 b. Airdrie, Lanarkshire

She is showing as an inmate at the Girls Reformatory School in Edinburgh.

Monica

[worth]

Hi MonikaL
I have never found a birth record either, Barbara was Thomas and Elizabeths last child, I have her marriage and death though. It sounds like a good possiblility that you may have found her ill have a look at it now, and thanks x

[MonicaL]

If father Thomas died in 1854, likely she was born a little earlier (assuming he is the father and Elizabeth did not have a child after Thomas died?).

Although 1861 is a problem, 1871 would fit well. See from 1881 that she gives her birth place as New Monkland c. 1855 which fits well with an Airdrie birth place from 1871.

Monica