Rev. Robert Hogg of Roxburgh

[DudelsackHogg]

Great find Tom.

That tidies that up nicely for me.

https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/virtual-volumes/volume-images?image=105&source=way-pointing&volume=CH2/841/2&volume_info=Ednam%20kirk%20session&volume_short_desc=Minutes%20%281770-1792%29%20and%20Accounts%20%281702-1791%29%0D%0A&record_id=6042&rex_uid=REX00888&related_places=GAZ00503&placename=Ednam

Ednam kirk session, Minutes (1770-1792) and Accounts (1702-1791), CH2/841/2

Page 105

Ednam 3rd November 1771

Isabel Young single unmarried woman in this Parish being summoned to this Diet compeared and acknowledged that she had brought forth a child in uncleanliness about the latter end of June last, being interrogated who was the father of the child, answered that Alexander Hog tenant in Kersmains in the Parish of Roxburgh was the father. Being further interrogated when the guilt was committed answered at Kermsmains in the said parish. She was rebuked for her sin and exhorted to serious repentance. The sessions considering that this affair belongs to the session of Roxburgh ordered her confession to be transferred* to the said session.
And then the sederunt was closed with prayer.

*Looks like transifutted to me - not sure of this word.

A real shame there are no records for Roxburgh at this time.

Are you connected to this line? I wonder if you have taken a DNA test? I would be very interested to see if we connect.

Thanks for clearing this up. Much appreciated.

[Tomhutton]

It is probably 'transmitted' but I'll have a look.

It ties Robert up correctly, but at the other end of that generation is a 'daughter' Christian born in 1802, from her 'mother's' age on the gravestone it is unlikely that Christian was Isabella's daughter, so I wonder if anyone can help explain. Is she actually the daughter of another Alexander Hogg? Does anyone know what happened to her?

I have several connections to the Hogg/Hog families. A DNA test is on its way!

[DudelsackHogg]

You are right about transmitted - I was confused by the looping 's' from session on the line above. Anyway.

I didn't find anything for Christian, not sure what happened to her. I do suspect concealed illegitimacy. Alexander was tenant in Homebank at the time of her birth - only a distance of around 9 miles on a modern map. Her birth entry does have something scored out after the entry but I can't read it. There is a marriage of a Christian Hogg and Thomas Thomson in 1828 Kelso which fits nicely age wise. Not looked at the actual certificate though and I couldn't find this couple on the census in 1841. I couldn't find a death certificate for her either.

I'm also curious about the Andrew who appears on the horse tax roles with Alexander in 1788/89.
An Andrew with the parents William and Elspeth would fit for my elusive 5x great grandfather. My Andrew also vouches for an Anne Dickson in the Kelso Kirk sessions - but I don't think he would go from paying horse tax to being a farm servant in 1809 and this Andrew would also possibly be too old, but I am still drawn to this family for some reason.

[Tomhutton]

I also wonder why in both the newspaper obituary and on the gravestone Alexander son of Alexander and Isabella is referred to as their fourth son, or is their another son in the early years of their marriage?

[DudelsackHogg]

I just realised I made a mistake with the listing of the children’s names and I’d copied and pasted it wrong again later in the thread.

It should be Andrew not Alexander.

So the following:

Robert - Kersmains 22/06/1771
William - Kersmains 20/02/1773
Mary - Kersmains 31/03/1775
Betty - Kersmains 22/12/1776
Andrew - Kersmains 04/11/1778
Alexander - Kersmains 21/10/1780
John - Kersmains 26/02/1783
Andrew - Kersmains 05/01/1785
Archibald - Kersmains 13/10/1788
Isabel - Kersmains 15/11/1795
Christian - Kersmains 23/08/1802

So the Andrew born 1778 probably died around 1784 and they named their next son Andrew as well.
On the MI it says:

also ANDREW HOGG who died in infancy.

So Alexander would be the 4th son:


1st - Robert - 1771
2nd - William - 1773
3rd - Andrew- Kersmains 1778
4th - Alexander - 1780
5th - John - 1783
6th - Andrew - 1785
7th - Archibald - 1788

[Tomhutton]

I didn't have William so now that does make Alexander the fourth. You seem to have lost Helen born 1786 though.

[Tomhutton]

One other question on the Rev. Robert Hogg's ancestry is his mother Bessie Mein. There are two possible identities for this person. The one I would favour is the daughter of Robert Mein and Barbara Ker born in 1676 and baptised in Roxburgh. This would mean that Bessie was about 26 when she married Alexander Hogg in 1702. The names of all four parents appear high up in the list of Hogg children. Also given the Ker connection in this case.

The other Bessie Mein is born in 1684 to parents John Mein and Alison Mason at Kelso, and would have been 18 in 1702. Her mother's name Alison does not appear in the naming of her children and the name John could come from Alexander Hogg's father John Hogg.

For these reasons I would favour the Bessie born in Roxburgh in 1676.

[DudelsackHogg]

You’re right, I missed Helen out. She is in the tree I have. I was actually recording Kersmains references and Helen’s birth record does not seem to be here.

I’m more inclined to go for Robert Mein and Barbara Ker because Johne and Vair name one of their daughters Barbarie. I have nothing else to back this up.

I do have the Testament and Inventory of an Alexander Hogg who died in Newtoune in 1687. It mentions a Robert Mein and also ‘John Hogg portioner of Rox’ (later in the text ‘other portioner of Rox’) - and under that it says ‘Hogg his brother’. I’m having a hard time reading it but I think it does contain a lot of information on the family. Perhaps it’s a post for the deciphering page but it does run two pages of quite dense text.

[Tomhutton]

Yes, you are absolutely right that the Testament of Alexander (1687) is very hard work! So are those of Robert (1683) and John (1698), both portioners in Roxburgh. That of John (1698) Hog seems to be Johne married to Vair Ker.