Two Charles COE/Elizabeth families in NSW from 1850's

[majm]

So, may I assume that you already have validated all your own research back Sophia COE and John EVANS and you have official records to show they are the ancestors (ggg grandparents) of your husband.   So now you are up to researching Sophia COE and John EVANS.   

What official records do you actually hold for those two NSW people? 

If this were my family, I would be considering ordering the official transcription of their marriage, and once I received that, I would be noting the elusive blanks, and contacting the Diocese Archives that should hold the parish register for that parish/clergyman.   

Without the reconciled information (parish register plus NSW BDM civil registration) for that marriage, you may have some difficulty confirming/validating all the information available in the dc for Sophia OSBORNE.   

Just my take on your quest.  as until you have the actual information that Sophia and John both gave about themselves for their marriage, how can you safely progress back to earlier generations?  That's first hand information.   

JM   

[Tracey Asteroid]

Absolutely. Marriage certificates are the key!

[majm]

.....
I am in contact with a lady that is a descent of one of the PEARCE daughters, who has a copy of Elizabeth COE (nee PEARCE, nee MCGUINNESS) death certificate. If she is kind enough to share a copy with me, then I can sort of confirm which children she had that the death informant knew of.

In the mean time, I need to start saving up pennies to buy all these birth/death certificates.
.....

May I just mention that:
The Elizabeth COE, who died in July 1898 and was buried at Coonamble was aged 77 as per the Australian Cemeteries Index.
NSW BDM has her dc noting her father as Charles and her mother as Unknown.  (#9159). 
http://austcemindex.com/inscription?id=6744736

The Sophia OSBORNE who died March 1897 and was buried at Coonamble was aged 49, as per the Australian Cemeteries Index.
NSW BDM has her dc noting her parents as Charles and Elizabeth (#985)
 http://austcemindex.com/inscription?id=6745069

So if that were Mother and Daughter both buried in the Old Coonamble Cemetery, then Sophia’s mum was still alive and likely she was living nearby to Sophia when Sophia died.    (Another tree has Charles COE as the chap who died at age 82, at Merilla, 18 August 1885, employed by William CHISHOLM, again, no supporting official records, just index references) .

Yes, the marriage certs should hold the key 

Absolutely. Marriage certificates are the key!

Official transcriptions will have all the same info (including the same blanks) as the real deal certs and are not only cheaper, but also come already transcribed as email attachments. 

JM

[majm]

NSW ER 1878 ARGYLE
Charles COE (qualified to be enrolled by) residence, Mirrilla.  NO OTHERS with that surname on that ER.

Looks like there is a Probate Packet in Series 3 for that Charles COE, probate granted 3 Nov 1885.  There may well be a dc in that file, and a will, and a disbursement of the deceased estate, naming beneficiaries.  (dc may show how long in the colonies)
http://investigator.records.nsw.gov.au/Entity.aspx?Path=\Item\305321

ADD
1867 Directory ARGYLE
C COX Mirrilla.  (Yes, this is for Cox, with an 'x' not with an 'e')

Trove:
Branded Yearling Colt and a Yellow Cow …. Charles COE, of Mummell,  Goulburn Herald 29 June 1861 http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/105778280 
Charles COE, of Merilla, Goulburn Evening PP 20 June 1885 http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/98443438

I wonder if that is the one chap, in 1861 and in 1885.   

JM

[majm]

Rachel/Rachael died in 1935 and was buried at the Botany Cemetery with her husband Thomas BOWMAN.  The burial record gives her age as 76 and this may be her birth:

6510/1859
CHO,   RACHEL
CHARLES & ELIZABETH
at CARCOAR

There is no consecutive registration number for another child that might be a twin.

That birth certificate should give information about when and where Rachel's parents were married, and Charles occupation, their usual address, and details of Rachel's older siblings.   In 1859, the Elizabeth COE who died Coonamble 1898 aged 77,  was in her mid 30s.    so perhaps born in 1820s. 

So I  had some spare moments this afternoon, and I have let my fingers do the walking, online, and  from my armchair only.

I notice the following submitted information which makes me suggest that much of the info on those links Tracey has given in the OP are off the mark or not giving all the info they have found on various documents.   I share:

Elizabeth, who died July 5, 1898, Coonamble NSW is noted as the wife of Charles COE, at the following SUBMITTED family tree:     http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/McGuinness-118

So on that tree, Elizabeth 1806-1898 is also noted as the wife of Richard PEARCE, with their marriage as 9 January 1832,  Scott’s Kirk, Margaret St, Sydney.  And the citation for that marriage as V183222073A.   That Elizabeth is given as the mother of Elizabeth PEARCE, born 21 Nov 1833,  Richard PEARCE born 22 April 1834,  Mary Ann PEARCE, born 9 April 1836, Robert PEARCE born 21 March 1838, Charles COE born about 1844, Berrimah, and Annie “Jane” PEARCE born 22 June 1844, West Bargo .    The tree owner cites “A Convict Maid” as the source for the info re Annie “Jane” Pearce. 

IF this turns out to be your Sophia’s ancestors, then my armchair searchings today lead me to comment that perhaps her mum may be one of the following lasses (A Convict Maid) 
Elizabeth MACGINNIS on the Friendship of 1818 (wife of a Daniel as per her CF) 
Elizabeth MCGEE on the Kains, 1831
Elizabeth KAYE (aka JONES) ON THE Kains 1831
Eliza COX on the Edward, 1829

BUT there’s so many many many dots between Sophia OSBORNE and Jane PEARCE that need to be checked and re-checked, official documents to be obtained, validating, eliminating and all those usual significant checks.

What  I am surprised to see on any family tree with NSW families in the 1830s is a Presbyterian marriage and it followed by a C of E baptism for their first born. 
I find that lass Elizabeth, as a daughter for Richard and Elizabeth and that lass was born 21 November 1832, (not 21 November 1833 that the submitted tree gives)  Further I find she was baptised in January 1833.  I have used two reliable sources (the historic records at family search and the NSW BDM Early Church Records "V" series)

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTC8-JQJ

https://familysearch.org/search/collection/location/1927080?region=Australia

NSW BDM (INDEX only so not research, just look up searching)

Richard PEARCE and Elizabeth MCGUINNESS, marriage as Vol 73A, line 220, 1832.  (JA code Scots Church, Presbyterian) (so matching the reference nos. on the submitted tree)
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/family-history/early-church-codes.aspx
and
Isabell daughter of Richard and Elizabeth PEARCE, Volume 17, line 410, 1833.

So, it seems to me that there's been various different people over the years try to prepare a family tree, and get themselves tangled up perhaps due to lack obtaining the official records.

JM

[Tracey Asteroid]

Tangled up has to be a giant under statement.

I am sure it was Elizabeth MCGUINESS, widow of Richard PEARCE, who arrived on the "Friendship" with her mother and older brother. Elizabeth was signed into the Orphan Home not long after arriving, but was released into her brother's care as a teenager. She met PEARCE and had four children before he passed. I have been told that Richard's will prevented Elizabeth from ever re-marrying, so Elizabeth and Charles COE did not get married.
Elizabeth and Charles lived in Binda (near Crookwell) on the sheep station owned by her brother Thomas, at least until Thomas passed away. Family lore then says that Charles stayed in the Goulburn area, while Elizabeth and all the children joined a caravan of families moving from Victoria to the North West of NSW, eventually settling in Coonamble.
It is a great story, but I don't know how accurate any of it is, and how to find supporting information.

The PEARCE descendant I have been talking to, is related to the last of the PEARCE girls born, Mary Ann, who traveled with her mother before becoming a midwife, marrying, and staying in the Goulburn area after Elizabeth and the younger children moved on. She was passed down photos of the family in Coonamble, so that suggests a link at least.

I am going to put this on the back burner for a bit. I need to figure out what certificates I need copies of and get them ordered. That will be the clearest way to link all the kids with the same parents I think.

thanks for your help!

[Deb Kelly]

Hi Tracey

I am a direct descendant from Charles COE Snr, the unfortunate convict who arrived on the Katharine Stewart Forbes in 1830. I have read through your initial posts re Sophia COE who and can confirm that my great great grandfather Charles COE Jnr born in 1847 in Berrima was indeed a brother to your Sophia EVANS (née COE).

Charles COE Jnr m Elizabeth PARKER (née HAMBLIN) whose son Sydney (Thomas) COE m Ethel Pearl TATTERSALL parents of my grandmother Lilian Madge HARRIS (née COE).

I have been researching the family for many years and have found so many unverified sources that I decided to retrace much of what has been recorded via publicly available online family trees - very few items are correct.  The info from the PEARCE descendants you mentioned in "A Convict Maid" have been verified though there is only a small amount on Charles COE there is a significant history of Elizabeth McGuinness and her family.

I will add what I know with sources soon. Looking forward to clearing some brick walls!

cheers Deb Kelly

[ClaireLouiseB]

Hi Tracey.

We're related!

For years my aunt in law and now also myself have been trying to work this tree out. We have a lot of baptism records all from Coonamble.  I saw you're researching our elusive John Howard and his son Patrick too!

re the pearce/coe/evans/Mcguiness families... there is a lady who's husband is related to the pearce side and has done extensive research, including probate look ups etc... her name escapes me at the moment but I will try and find out for you.  i know she has gotten a lot of the marriage and birth and death records, as has my husbands aunt.

I have been to Coonamble and have photos some where of the memorial wall with Elizabeth Jnr's name on it.  The old cemetry is a park now and from memory some of the graves were moved and some weren't.

The family was quite a large one!

My husbands Pop was part of the Howard group and grew up in Coonamble.

Any way... I have been working on this for 5 years now, on and off. Would love to solve it soon as my Aunt in law has always wanted to find 'the first howard' Of course his name had to be JOHN! nothing like trying to find some one who shares the same name as one of the country's ex-priministers lol!!!

[ClaireLouiseB]

The lady who has done a massive amount of work on this... Her name came back to me but as some one has pointed out, as she's alive (as far as I know, its been about 2 years since I've corresponded with her) I have removed her name. She has posted extensively about our family online though... Her initials are JD. That should be enough to let you know wether our info crosses over.

I really do have to get Vivs paperwork back off her, she has so many certificates that she paid for and she's visited so many churches and local history groups!