Grandparents bring up grandchild 1920

[Billyblue]

As MAJM pointed out in her detailed reply - what's on the marriage and death certificates depends on what the registrar was told at the time.
My Dad's youngest 'sister' gave my Dad's parents names on her marriage certificate.
My Dad's mother's death certificate lists her as her youngest child.
But when I got said 'sister's' birth certificate (c1910), I discovered she was actually the first-born child of one of Dad's older sisters.
When I quizzed Dad about this, he said he was only 12 or 13 at the time and didn't know, though later he had wondered why the older sister had worn her overcoat every day in their shop, one winter       He also said the family always thought that the guy the older sister married was the father, and he didn't know why they never acknowledged my aunt/cousin as their child but let everyone including the 'child' continue in the belief that Dad's parents were her parents.

A sign of the times?
Hope you can make sense of that     
Dawn M

[rosball]

Some people have access to NSW birth index up to 1918 - on CD I think.

I'll send a pm to a person who does although she hasn't been around lately.

cheers,
   Ros

adding : I get it Dawn 

[~MERLIN~]

Some people have access to NSW birth index up to 1918 - on CD I think.
I'll send a pm to a person who does although she hasn't been around lately.

This is no birth registered for a Rose Margaret/Margaret/Rose M/Margaret R/Rose or Margaret FRANCIS between the years of 1915 to 1918.

Nothing under ISHERWOOD or NOLAN either.

[rosball]

Thanks Merlin 

When did the grandfather die Belindy?  Is there a probate file for him ?   http://investigator.records.nsw.gov.au/
If so I could photograph for you next time I am there - slight chance that there may be a mention of birth

cheers,
   Ros

[~MERLIN~]

Previous thread as some Q & A's are being repeated on this one.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=729024.0

[majm]

 

"..I can only hope she was indeed born in 1918
Rose Margaret FRANCIS's marriage certificate has her age at 26 in 1947"

Why would you be looking for a birth 1918 if the marriage record suggests 1921?

Thank you.
Yes this was in Sydney around 1918.
Mum would have been 53 when the child was born so I thought maybe the child was born to an older sibling.

From the other thread that Merlin has highlighted, there's an official transcription for a birth in 1906, where the mother is aged 36, giving  possible birth year for Mum as 1870.     So if Rose was 26 when marrying in 1947, Rose was possibly born in 1921.    A lass born in 1906 is unlikely to be a mother to a baby born in 1918, and possibly conceived when mum was aged 11.   On the other hand, if considering a Mum born in 1870, and a baby born in 1921, perhaps conceived in 1920, Mum may have been 49, and approaching 50...   Not at all an impossibility even in that era, remember that some of our WWI servicemen did not arrive back until 1920..... 

ADD
I think you have answered your own question here:

I can only hope she was indeed born in 1918

Rose Margaret FRANCIS's marriage certificate has her age at 26 in 1947 and her death notice has her at 84 in 2003 so we really won't know her real birthday until the records are 100 years old.

She doesn't appear on her mother's(Rose Margaret FRANCIS nee ISHERWOOD) death certificate even though she lists the elder Rose Margaret as her mother on her marriage certificate.

In the elder Rose Margaret's death notice the younger Rose Margaret is mentioned as her daughter.   

JM 

[sparrett]

As mentioned somewhere in the 2 threads running,  the death notice of Thomas FRANCIS gives Rose as one of his daughters.

SMH, 12th June 1943
FRANCIS, June 10, 1943 at 14 Dover Rd, Rose Bay, Thomas Francis beloved father of Evelyn, Nora (Mrs Darrell) and Rose. RIP.


He is buried at Rookwood with his wife.

After his wife's death he lived at the same address as daughter Evelyn Ellen FRANCIS from at least 1930 to 1943.  Do we presume Rose was with them?.

Sue

[majm]

Rookwood Cemetery
Catholic Mortuary 2 & 3
Section 9,  Row 12,  Plot 2044
5 January 1926
Rose M FRANCIS,
MI   ‘our mother’


By 1926 Rose, the daughter, was old enough to either start Infants School if born 1920/1 or start Primary School if born 1918.  After the death of her mum,  it is quite possible that her grandparents may have become far more actively involved in her after school care, or more, but they would not have needed to formalise the arrangements in any legal sense at all.   For example : any public school or convent school would have allowed the child to be enrolled either by an older sibling, a parent (including step parent) or grandparent/s.   

JM   (I posted this on the other thread,  it is perhaps better placed here).

[belindy]

Rose Francis was actually the daughter of Frances FAULKNER.
She died of birth complications and the informant was none other than Rose Francis who then raised baby Rose.

Thank you all for your help.