William Arthur Pay Lived in SA from 1880-1998 and from 1901-1902

[genealogiepay]

@ IgorStrav: from a post by Rosie:
"That request appeared in Lloyd's Weekly Newspaper 04 July 1897 and states his mother lived in Cornwall Road, Notting Hill 8 years ago.  It also says his brother joined the Mounted Police in S. Africa about either 15 or 18 years ago (copy is poor)"
Seems like a similar message is published in 1900 and 1901 by Alfred.
The Gold Fields of Prince Edward ( in the 1900 publication) are either in Canada, Wales or South Africa.
There was a Gold Rush in Canada/USA, so I guess it's this one.
Obviously when his wife Elisabeth Augusta Wollenschlager died, he moved to the USA and returned to SA after Black Week. There is a document that Arthur Pay moved from Rose Bank USA to South Africa during the Boer War (Western Province Mounted Rifles). This states that he is a Mining Engineer.
Years ago I found a military file in Kew of a Arthur Pay from 1872, Father John, from Sussex, but that one doesn't seem to match with my WA Pay from London 1865.
Funny note is that he lost his stripes because he got caught being drunk on duty (which would match his genes from his father William James as a barman....lol).

The story of my great aunt (sister of my grandfather Arthur Pay....) is that AP got wounded in the Boer War and moved to Surinam etc.

Other strange facts is that a John Pay, born in Africa, died in Surinam in 1887 ...
As WA Pay's son Arthur shipwrecked near Prince Edward Island, being part of a convoy in 1943.

Perhaps this info is of any help or more confusing.
Trying dig-out their history for two decades now. But it's obviously part of my DNA never to give up:-)
Thanks for all the help.
"If you fail, try try try again" Arthur Pay (Sr)

[genealogiepay]

@ Rosie99:
Ada Emily and George Maling indeed had a daughter Edith, In a census (i think the 1901) they live together with either WJ daughter Ada Mary or Florence Ellen. Check
Pls send me newspaper article from 1897 in the Lloyds Weekly. Its obviously  a different one than mine from 1900. Thanks. genenealogiepayATgmail.com

[rosie99]

Sorry I am not able to download the image to send to you. 

Just a few things which if they were my Pay family I would be considering.

There is no trace of a marriage between Ada Emily Smith & William James Pay.
There is no trace of a death of William James Pay between 1871 & 1881 census.  There is no trace of WJP in the census around the time the children were born.

I realise that you have numerous birth certificates of her children that all state that Ada Emily Pay was nee Smith and that her husband was William James Pay.  They are however no proof that Ada was married to a William James Pay as she could have made up the information, it would not have been checked.  It was not uncommon for fathers names to be made up by the mother when registering the birth to avoid admitting they were illegitimate.

When Ada married George Maling the pretence that she was previously married would have been continued including naming her father as George Smith, again she would not have had to prove that she was previously married or widowed. When the birth of her 'Maling' daughter was registered she gave her maiden surname as Pay not Smith.

[IgorStrav]

There is no trace of a death of William James Pay between 1861 & 1871 census.  There is no trace of WJP in the census around the time the children were born.

Rosie - I think you meant no trace of a death for WJP between 1873 and 1881 census

[rosie99]

There is no trace of a death of William James Pay between 1861 & 1871 census.  There is no trace of WJP in the census around the time the children were born.

Rosie - I think you meant no trace of a death for WJP between 1873 and 1881 census

Whoops again.  I have amended my dates.

Thank you

[IgorStrav]

Robin -  added again for your ref

several trees on Ancestry have quoted the death ref below for William James PAY.
As you see from this - it's a death ref for a child aged 0, so cannot be his.


PAY, WILLIAM  JAMES     0 
GRO Reference: 1874  J Quarter in THANET  Volume 02A  Page 472

[rosie99]

Another child for Ada 
ROSE GERTRUDE MALING     Mothers maiden surname PAY 
1888  June Quarter in PADDINGTON  Volume 01A  Page 63

Deaths Jun qtr 1890 
Rose Gertrude Maling age 2   
Paddington    1a   19

ADDED
Do you have the birth certificates of any of the Maling children

[genealogiepay]

Wow. That's quite a shock.
Another child for Ada Emily. At least she was a legal one this time;-(
The only William James Pay I found was one from Deal born in 1833, but I'm almost convinced the chap William James Pay was made up by Ada Emily. Would be funny if the lad from Deal IS the father: Perhaps a family member or a Pay from another tree. Another reason not to marry these days for sure;-)
Good thing is that it must pretty easy to find the parents, great parents etc. of George?
There is a George Pay in South Africa. Perhaps he took his grandson William Arthur to SA around 1880?

The picture of William James I posted might be WA Pay's grandfather George. Would make sense, not?

I read a file in the NA in Kew two years ago about a WA Pay trying to divorce a Emily Smith (1910-1915) who described her as a woman he never had to something with, but that's probably a totaly wrong lead....

@Rosie: I dont have a birth certicate of AE Pay's kid with George. I do have a picture of WA Pay's sister Florence though. Thanks for your help
@IgorStrav: Thanks for the help too. Much appreciated!

Cheers,

Robin

[genealogiepay]

Florence Pay (professional Head Maker, a good one;-) )