Charles William Smith, Manchester

[AMBLY]

I had seen these two census for 1881 and 1891 - are these the correct ones?

Census 1881:  North Street, Chelsea, Middlesex
Piece 85 /Folio 13 /Pg 20
Albert Smith 27, Bootmaker, b Paddington Mdx
Eliza Smith 26, Dressmaker, b Devon, Devonshire
Dau: Elizabeth 2, b Chelsea
Dau: Alice 9 mths, b Chelsea

Census 1891: Chelsea North, Middlesex
Piece: 58/ Folio 50/Pg 16/
482 Kings Road, Chelsea, in 3 rooms at that multi headed address:
Head: Henrietta KINNER 66, Widow, Living on own means, b France
Serv: Eliza SMITH 34, Housekeeper, b Devon
Son-in-law: Charles SMITH 2, b Chelsea

Jenn, I'm wondering about the neice who is said to have visited Charles in Manchester.
Are we able to have her details and see if we can find her on passenger lists - it's possible she may list Charles' address on the manifests (where going to) (from whence came) etc?

Cheers
AMBLY

[jenn270]

Replying to Ambly...

(For some reason I don't even see my post from yesterday showing- where I spoke of the marriage of John Whittaker & Eliza/Elizabeth (Rose) Smith??)

Thank you for the two census listings. By 1891 Eliza's husband was gone and she was struggling to look after herself and her children. This is what led to her allowing Ada & Albert to go into the care of Dr. Barnardo's organization & we purchased his records from them.
The niece who visited Charles was Albert's (the son of Eliza) daughter Barbara, b. 1924. She was a Smith & married Arthur Stevens and they were both with the Salvation Army. They or she (not sure if he went too or not) went to England for something to do with the Salvation Army and while there went to visit Charles & family. So, I doubt his name & address would have been given but at least it would indicate that he was still living at that time.
Thanks so much!

[jenn270]

Charles was the only child able to remain with his mother so what you found certainly is in line with that; thank you. I will look at the listing for the girls.

Sorry Jamjar - I was just pointing out that the references were there if Jennie couldn't find it.

Jenn,
Do you have the children in 1891? I think I saw a reference to Albert and Charles is with mum
but just found the girls in Ilford.

1891 1370/109/32

Elizabeth Amelia, Ada and Alice.

[jenn270]

Both would appear to be the right person but why the discrepancy in places of birth I don't know! Perhaps she lived in Paddington at one time and gave that as her place of birth.

Jennifer

I did see an earlier thread where you mentioned the birth place here

1911 Elizabeth Whittaker b 1862 Paddington

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW85-3HN    Is this Elizabeth?

1881 Eliza Smith b 1855 Devon

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QK65-6W6T

[jenn270]

Thank you so much for the link to the 3 girls! How horrible though that they were living in the 'Girls Village Home for Orphan Neglected and Destitute Girls'. Do you recall where you saw Albert listed?
Jennifer

Sorry Jamjar - I was just pointing out that the references were there if Jennie couldn't find it.

Jenn,
Do you have the children in 1891? I think I saw a reference to Albert and Charles is with mum
but just found the girls in Ilford.

1891 1370/109/32

Elizabeth Amelia, Ada and Alice.

[heywood]

I agree with the sightings Ambly has posted re Eliza.

Is this Albert in 1891    849/32/2

Harting, Sussex

Geo Chitty   51 yrs
Ruth Chitty 46 yrs
Harriet Chitty 14 yrs
William Chitty 10 yrs
Albert G Smith boarder 5yrs b London
Arthur Denham boarder 5 yrs

[jenn270]

It certainly could be! Thank you again. Not sure why he wound up there but I suppose it all depended on who would take the children. The Barnardo report says that his mother tried to keep him with her but the woman she worked for wouldn't continue to employ her if she did because he was too noisy!

I agree with the sightings Ambly has posted re Eliza.

Is this Albert in 1891    849/32/2

Harting, Sussex

Geo Chitty   51 yrs
Ruth Chitty 46 yrs
Harriet Chitty 14 yrs
William Chitty 10 yrs
Albert G Smith boarder 5yrs b London
Arthur Denham boarder 5 yrs

[heywood]

Both would appear to be the right person but why the discrepancy in places of birth I don't know! Perhaps she lived in Paddington at one time and gave that as her place of birth.

Jennifer

Jennifer,
It's all so sad!
May I ask how you know that Eliza Amelia (Rose) Smith became Elizabeth Crisp then Elizabeth Whittaker.
I am puzzled and worried about the different fathers and the year and place of birth discrepancies.
Heywood

[Marj]

Hi

Marriages Sep 1896   (>99%)

De Bell  Joseph Henry      Wandsworth  1d 1181   
Smith  Eliza Amelia     Wandsworth  1d 1181   
Squibb  James                Wandsworth  1d 1181   
Sullivan  Margaret          Wandsworth  1d 1181   

 mother or daughter ?

Regards Marj