Author Topic: Dale/Chell Assistance  (Read 1214 times)

Offline Jadbates

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Dale/Chell Assistance
« on: Tuesday 02 August 16 07:31 BST (UK) »
My mother-in-law has asked me to see if I can find out some information on her mother, Gladys May KNIGHT (nee DALE CHELL), born 1916.

Gladys May was raised by Edward CHELL and always called Winifred POOLE (nee CHELL) her sister. In actual fact, Gladys was the informant on Winifred's death certificate.

My mother-in-law has given me two stories as she has aged:
1. Her mother was illegitimate but the natural daughter of Edward. Because the mother did not want to keep the baby, Edward took her and, with Winifred's assistance, raised her.
2. Edward adopted Gladys (this story has only recently been told to me).

The information I have to hand includes:
1. Edward Chell - believed to have been born about 1879.
2. About 1904/5 Edward married Prudence Taft.
3. On 10 October 1905 at 8 Fenton Low, Winifred was born. Edward's occupation at the time was Coal Miner (Winifred's birth Certificate).
4. On 15 October 1918, Edward applied, according to The Factory and Workshop Act of 1901, for a Certified Copy of Winnifred's [sic] entry of birth. At that time, he listed his address as No. 2, South Street, Mt Pleasant, Fenton and his occupation was Fitters Assistant, Loco Kerr, Stuarts, Stoke (Application 'To Prove Age for Elementary Education Purpose').
5. On 4th July, Winifred Chell, aged 21 years, married Frank Mottram Poole, 22 years. Frank's occupation was Stationary Engineman at Steelworks; Winifred's occupation was General Servant Domestic. Winifred was living at 6 Upper Crescent Harpfields, Stoke on Trent and Frank was living at 60 Spode Street, Stoke on Trent. On the Marriage Entry Winifred's father is listed now as William Edward CHELL and a chimney sweep (Marriage Certificate).
6. There are no children of this marriage.
7. Edward CHELL of 2 South Street, Fenton and a Chimney Sweep dies on 27 Dec 1956 aged 71 years (Death Certificate).

a. In 1916 (believed to be 23 February), a child named Gladys May DALE is born. Mother's name may be Florence Maud DALE.
b. Gladys is raised by Edward CHELL. Was this because he was the natural father and the mother did not want the child? Did Edward adopt the child?
c. Gladys called Winifred her sister and they had a close relationship.
d. Gladys marries Joseph KNIGHT 3 Aug 1935 at St Peters Church. She lists her name as Gladys May DALE CHELL. She is living at 87 Whieldon Road and her father is listed as Edward CHELL, Chimney Sweep (Marriage Certificate).
e. By the birth of her first child in 1937, she is living at 186 Whieldon Road, Fenton (Daughter's birth Certificate).
f. Winifred dies a widow on 8 Oct 1986 and the informant is Gladys May KNIGHT, sister (Death Certificate).
g. Gladys May KNIGHT (nee CHELL) dies a widow on 15 May 1988 at 186 Whieldon Road, Mt Pleasant (Death Certificate).

As can be seen Gladys May used both names separately and together: DALE, CHELL. The information above I have from photocopied documents I gathered when our family visited my husband's relatives in England (from Australia) in the mid-90s. My mother-in-law is not well and has always expressed a desire to know more about her maternal parentage (I have retired and now have some time to look into it a bit more).

In the 1911 census, Edward is living with his son and daughter and a 60 year old woman who is listed as a servant doing house work. It could be possible that within the next 5 years he could have employed a young woman and fathered Gladys. Lots of suppositions. Edward did not remarry to my knowledge.

I hope there is enough information here to elicit feedback. Any assistance or thoughts on how I might approach this would be appreciated. Is there a way to check for adoptions?

Thank you in advance.

Kind regards
Merrelyn Bates

Offline KGarrad

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Re: Dale/Chell Assistance
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 02 August 16 07:49 BST (UK) »
Formal, legal, adoptions only started in 1927, so there will almost certainly not be any paperwork if there was an informal adoption.

Edward's marriage:
December qtr 1903
Stoke on Trent Registration District     volume 6b, page 305

Chell, Edward
Taft, Prudence


Gladys May's (probable) birth:
June qtr 1916
Stoke on Trent Registration District     vol 6b, page 406

Dale, Gladys M       Mother's Maiden Name: Dale


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Offline ciderdrinker

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Re: Dale/Chell Assistance
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 02 August 16 12:46 BST (UK) »
Hi
If you buy Gladys May Dale's birth certificate it will give her mother and confirm the name of Florence Maud Dale.
There is only one Florence Maud Dale I can see about the right date in Stoke
Florence Maud 10.2.1888 daughter of Robert and Sarah.
Robert was dead by 1891 and Sarah age 43  has a very large family of seven children to bring up and Florence becomes a general servant.
In 1891 8 Hardinge Street Fenton,1901 no 13 ,1911 Honeywall

In Sep 1913 she has a daughter Florence Maud Dale who she keeps with her.

On 24.11.1917 she marries James Alfred Perkins (born1889) at St Peters Stoke.
There seems to be a daughter Doris in Dec 1918
Unfortunately Florence senior dies 18.1.1929 in Pump St Stoke.
Her husband James Alfred Perkins dies 17 May 1956 of 142 Fletcher road.Daughter Doris wife of Percy Fred Inch is named as the executor.
James was a potter caster and then a  chimney sweep and that may be how Edward Chell became involved.

There is a family tree on Ancestry with a photo of Florence Maud junior so you can compare family resemblances.(availible in some local libraries for free).

I can't see why Florence and James Alfred Perkins didn't marry earlier if he was father to all 3 girls but I will see what else I can find on him.And of course he may not be the father of Florence and Gladys.

It doesn't look like Edward remarried but there was another child William Edward Chell 1.6.1907-Mar 1973.Prudence had died June 1908 age 28.

Ciderdrinker

Offline Jadbates

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Re: Dale/Chell Assistance
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 03 August 16 07:32 BST (UK) »
Thank you for your assistance. I checked with Gladys May's daughter-in-law in Stoke to confirm that she did not have a copy of the birth certificate. I have just ordered the birth certificate as suggested above. I will see where that takes me. Thank you again.


Offline suzard

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Re: Dale/Chell Assistance
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 03 August 16 16:10 BST (UK) »
Please return and let us know

I was wondering as it seems Edward Chell was brought up by another family if Gladys may may be connected there

It is just supposition -we can research more when the certificate arrives -if you wish

Suz
Thornhill, Cresswell, Sisson, Harriman, Cripps, Eyre, Walter, Marson, Battison, Holmes, Bailey, Hardman, Fairhurst Noon-mainly in Derbys/Notts-but also Northampton, Oxford, Leics, Lancs-England
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Offline Jadbates

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Re: Dale/Chell Assistance
« Reply #5 on: Monday 19 September 16 06:19 BST (UK) »
Yahoo! I have just received Gladys May birth certificate. Yes, her mother was Florence Maud DALE, a servant (domestic) who lived at 2 South Street, Fenton. This was Edward Chell's address in 1918 from a record I have for him. Florence Maud registers Gladys's birth.

I made contact with the owner of the Ancestry tree that has the photo of Florence Maud Junior. The owner lives in the US and his grandfather and Edward Chell were half brothers. So, I will follow-up that link a bit further as well.

My mother-in-law also provided a DNA test and those results came in last night but no easy contacts have popped up. I am on the steep learning curve in this area so am not rushing into it.

Thank you for your assistance. I will now follow this paper trail but any suggestions always welcomed.

Kind regards
Merrelyn

Offline suzard

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Re: Dale/Chell Assistance
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 21 September 16 13:57 BST (UK) »
so pleased the birth cert has helped you research further -if there is anything any of us  can assist with further please ask

Thank you for coming back

Suz
Thornhill, Cresswell, Sisson, Harriman, Cripps, Eyre, Walter, Marson, Battison, Holmes, Bailey, Hardman, Fairhurst Noon-mainly in Derbys/Notts-but also Northampton, Oxford, Leics, Lancs-England
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Offline Jadbates

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Re: Dale/Chell Assistance
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 28 September 16 09:57 BST (UK) »
I am wanting your opinion if you don't mind. I have been tracking Florence's parents and siblings through the census.

I noticed that 'ciderdrinker' identified Robert Dale, the father, as deceased in 1891.

On the 1891 census, he certainly isn't listed and Sarah identifies herself as married.

IN the 1901 Census, she is living with her son-in-law and identifies herself as married but Robert is not listed.

I have found a Robert Dale, Potter Presser, listed in the 1901 Census Enumeration Book for the North Staffordshire Infirmary at Hartshill. His relation to the institution is 'Patient'.

I have then found a death for Robert Dale in the June Q 1904. Do you think I have followed the more likely Robert Dale or is there evidence that he died by 1891 that I have missed? I am aware that all the information that 'ciderdrinker' provided really put me on track and for that I am very appreciative - thank you.

Offline Annette7

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Re: Dale/Chell Assistance
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 28 September 16 18:12 BST (UK) »
It's possible that 'ciderdrinker' spotted Sarah without Robert in 1891 and assumed she had been widowed.   Certainly, she still claims to be married as you rightly say in both 1891 and 1901.

I would hazard a guess that Robert abandoned his family (can't find in 1891) and that the hospital patient in 1901 (claiming to be single) is indeed him and that he did indeed die in 1904. In 1911 Sarah now shown to be widowed which would support this.   Indeed, there is only one Robert Dale bc.1845 Stoke on Trent so surely must be him.

Annette
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