Author Topic: Thomas Joyce and Margaret Smith's children (c1910)  (Read 2063 times)

Offline *Sandra*

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Re: Thomas Joyce and Margaret Smith's children (c1910)
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 07 September 16 11:07 BST (UK) »
 U.S., Social Security Applications and Claims Index, 1936-2007 - Death Claim - Thomas Francis Joyce - 27 October 1881 - 18 August 1964 - Claim Date:   11 Sep 1964


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Offline TheNineteenth

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Re: Thomas Joyce and Margaret Smith's children (c1910)
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 07 September 16 11:19 BST (UK) »
 :o

Is my brief response. Wow. Shall digest and reply in full shortly!

Thank you!!!

Offline *Sandra*

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Re: Thomas Joyce and Margaret Smith's children (c1910)
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 07 September 16 11:20 BST (UK) »
New York Passenger List - Thomas Joyce 27 October 1979 Girardville PA - travelling Cobh Ireland to New York on the Westphalia arriving 8 June 1926 - going to 1220 N 10 or 19 Street Philadelphia.

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Offline TheNineteenth

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Re: Thomas Joyce and Margaret Smith's children (c1910)
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 07 September 16 11:52 BST (UK) »
An 'in full' reply.

Sandra - thank you so much for all of this. It's an enormous amount of research!

I'm a little concerned about Margaret's stated birth date of March 1882. She was baptised in 1876. This seems a huge difference. Then again, my Grandad - her cousin - travelled on a false birth certificate that made him 7 years younger in order to get him more work. Maybe Margaret was doing similar? This way she was married at 30 rather than at 36. Did that make her more desireable to Mr. Joyce?

So Margaret left the US for Ireland in 1914 and was still stuck there in 1920, having no US passport? You've typed "Left Ireland 1882-1904 and 1914-1920) which is a little confusing. Is this implying she went to the US as a baby? If so, then this really can't be her.

She did have a brother back in Ireland, and her and Tom are supposed to have visited.

Hard to state family likeness based on the photo, but none is jumping to mind.

One story states that Margaret returned to Ireland as a widow with both her children. This wouldn't be possible if we accept her death date as 1959, but Tom's as 1964.

Is the final passenger list referring to Tom Joyce b. 27/10/1879 travelling from Ireland to Philadelphia in 1926?

Again, huge thanks for all this...but it does raise some doubts!


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Re: Thomas Joyce and Margaret Smith's children (c1910)
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 07 September 16 13:09 BST (UK) »
Thomas Joyce with the 18 August 1964 death date is on the Pennsylvania death index as dying in Philadelphia - http://www.phmc.state.pa.us/bah/dam/rg/di/r11_090_DeathIndexes/Death_1964/D-64%20H-I-J.pdf  Unfortunately, that's one year after the death certificates are available online. 

Regarding the widow story, in the past, it wasn't unusual for women to claim to be widowed when they were really separated or divorced from their husband. 

Offline TheNineteenth

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Re: Thomas Joyce and Margaret Smith's children (c1910)
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 07 September 16 13:18 BST (UK) »
Yes, I'd considered that as a way of resolving the discrepancy! Just not sure how many discrepancies can be squared! Are the family on any US censuses at all?

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Re: Thomas Joyce and Margaret Smith's children (c1910)
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 07 September 16 13:33 BST (UK) »
If Margaret & the children came back to the US in June 1920, they would have missed the 1920 census, which was done Jan. 1920.

The Oregon marriage index has listings for Thomas Joyce & Margaret Smith for 8 May 1912 in Multnomah County.  It doesn't indicate who each married, but it seems likely that they're the ones you're looking for.

Offline TheNineteenth

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Re: Thomas Joyce and Margaret Smith's children (c1910)
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday 07 September 16 13:58 BST (UK) »
I suppose there's a chance that Margaret would be in the 1910 census, pre-marriage.

But then again, she is a 'Smyth'...!

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Re: Thomas Joyce and Margaret Smith's children (c1910)
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday 07 September 16 14:04 BST (UK) »
The passport application says she was in Ireland from 1882-1904 and 1914-1920, so perhaps there is a passenger list for her departure in 1904 that could shed some light on if she is the right person.