Who is Mene Smith?

[Forfarian]

Hi, I'm wondering what does Andrew's death certificate say? It should give his wife's name

Unless he died between 1856 and 1860-ish, when marital status was recorded but not the name of the decesed spouse.

[zumaro]

Alas Andrew Smith died in1857, and all the certificate says is he was married. His daughter Christian is the witness so that doesn't help either. I downloaded his probate record, and Mene is not mentioned. In that case his son Robert is put in charge of affairs, and no mention is made of other family members. Wouldn't a surviving wife usually handle that kind of thing?

The only death certificate I have with her name is son Andrew's, and there she is called Beny, but he died in Tain, rather remote from remaining family members so information was probably recalled from distant memory. His wife was also from Prestonpans, but I don't suppose that is any guarantee she remembered Mene after 25 years away.

[zumaro]

McGroger thanks for that reply. I always learn so much on this forum about ways to analyse and places to look. I knew something funky went on in the 1841 census but wasn't sure how to interpret the ages. So I see the earlier censuses do point towards her being younger in the family. And your explanation of how she might be Mary rings as true as the other scenarios.

So when Scotlandspeople is back online I have many things to try and check out. Were Mene's sisters married or did any die young seems a good starting point. And the censuses to see if they are accurate. I did find some marriages of Smiths in Ormiston in a likely timeframe on Familysearch, but we need death records as well.

The only good thing about this research involving Smiths, is they are in small towns where the name is a bit rarer. Unluckily Edinburgh is close and they keep gravitating towards anonymity there!

[J11]

Wictionary's Appendix of Biblical Names has MENE as a name in it's own right: "Mene - who reckons or is counted", apparently one of the words that appeared on the wall at Belshazzar's Feast.  Obscure biblical names such as Peniel (appears as Penuel, Pennel in Scotland) were popular at the time of Mene's birth.

[Forfarian]

Ahis son Robert is put in charge of affairs, and no mention is made of other family members. Wouldn't a surviving wife usually handle that kind of thing?

Only if there were no adult sons. It's much more common for a son or brother to be named as Executor in a will.

[Forfarian]

The only death certificate I have with her name is son Andrew's, and there she is called Beny

Beny/Binny/Beenie is usually a pet name for Robina, but I suppose her daughter-in-law could have misheard 'minny' as 'binny'. The letters B and M are very close in pronunciation.

[zumaro]

I think it is a mishearing. I thought that Andrew Smith Jr's second wife came from Prestonpans, but it turns out she was from Ross-shire, and living in Prestonpans at the time of their marriage. So she undoubtedly met Andrews parent's as both were alive in 1856 when they married in Tranent, but she may not have known them well.

Two more interesting facts I have found, are firstly Andrew Smith Jr's second marriage certificate lists his mother as Margory Smith, so that is her in 1856.

Secondly Marjory/Mene's daughter Christian, who marries North Berwick engineer Robert Bridges calls her first born daughter Marjory, and she was born in 1841. The first born son is named James after Robert's father, so the usual convention is operating here. But in the 1851 census Marjory is listed as Merrie Bridges (might just be a transcription error), and the 1871 census as Menie Bridges. In 1861 we see both Marjory Smith and Marjory Bridges in the Bridges household, so at least they were both consistent while living together...

In short this family thinks Mene Smith really is Marjory Smith, and that the two names are interchangeable even across generations.

I also checked out another Smith daughter, Margaret, who marries Alexander Nimmo, but unluckily they only seem to have 3 sons, which is of no use at all! However Marjory/Mene's son Robert, who marries Jane Kedzlie, has second born daughter Marjory Smith, and this family seems to be following the normal naming conventions. Other son Andrew has only one daughter, so again no use.

[Rosinish]

So, she's Marjory & not Marion?

I wonder too why both names for marriage?

Maybe both sisters married the same man 

Annie

[Rosinish]

I used to buy "Puzzler" which is a good crossword book & they have a "Who's Who" puzzle....this would fit in there well.

Now you need to find out if either wore glasses, what colour hair, was her hair long or short, how tall was she? 

Annie