Author Topic: But ..what happened to the babies ...?  (Read 11144 times)

Offline brigidmac

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,542
  • Computer incompetent but stiil trying
    • View Profile
But ..what happened to the babies ...?
« on: Monday 24 October 16 03:08 BST (UK) »
Between 1901 and 1907 an English couple claiming to be married

Went round ENGLAND  helping unmarried women, including several from Belfast.Ireland
. find quick comfortable placements for their babies .

They went under several names but were based in Liverpool.   true names according to 1 newspaper were

Mr Leo Selwyn .  Aka Harry Brown previously known to police

And miss Lottie Bourne waitress actress of Shrewsbury england

They also found childless couples who wanted a child of their own ..

And conveyed the children to them ..passing some off ?? as their own ??

 Or just  while staying at boarding houses in Manchester Cheltenham wherever

The newspaper ...had headline gripping headlines and articls appeared throughout the real
 they were sentenced .tho Leo pleaded for leniency on Lotties  behalf ...I thought sentence was harsh

.some babies mothers or receivers were traced ..so what happened to them were they taken off adoptive parents .made to redo christening and baptism documents or was status quo and discretion maintained and noonevthe wiser .

There are quite a few reports on this couple in various newspapers but I don't know how big a circulation


As for the untraced children ...who know they may be annoying MitrochondrDNA people everywhere because.

   " You can never be sure about.
 father but a mother is always a mother


Mr L attested to having persuaded miss L to start this enterprise because they met when she was pregnant and had been surprised by the responses to her advert to find a place to board ..nurse her baby ....as well as wetnurses she was contacted by childless couples willing to pay as much as 15 to cover costs
Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid smith jones,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson

Offline brigidmac

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,542
  • Computer incompetent but stiil trying
    • View Profile
Re: But ..what happened to the babies ...?
« Reply #1 on: Monday 24 October 16 03:13 BST (UK) »
I am particularly interested in the first birth baby of young Pretty Lottie {BOURNE./Evans /Roberts/smith )


Also I.d like to know if there were any Charlotte's or Lottie Bourne in   Shrewsburye England is that in Shropshire ?
   
Births from 1880 to 1890

On censuses.  1881. 1891or 1901

Could resolve a mystery .for my family and others.
Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid smith jones,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson

Offline brigidmac

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,542
  • Computer incompetent but stiil trying
    • View Profile
Re: But ..what happened to the babies ...?
« Reply #2 on: Monday 24 October 16 03:20 BST (UK) »
Heres one of the reports

http://newspapers.library.wales/view/4176824/4176826/30/

Does anyone think the lady pictured  looks like either of the ladies on my avatar? I.ll try and post a better pic
Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid smith jones,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson


Offline Rosinish

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,300
  • PASSED & PAST
    • View Profile
Re: But ..what happened to the babies ...?
« Reply #3 on: Monday 24 October 16 04:07 BST (UK) »
Hi Bmac,

I am particularly interested in the first birth baby of young Pretty Lottie {BOURNE./Evans /Roberts/smith )


Also I.d like to know if there were any Charlotte's or Lottie Bourne in  S.   .

Where exactly is "S"?

Annie

Added....OP has edited her post to include the info. needed i.e. my question was valid at the time of my posting.
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline majm

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 23,549
  • NSW 1806 Bowman Flag Ecce signum.
    • View Profile
Re: But ..what happened to the babies ...?
« Reply #4 on: Monday 24 October 16 04:20 BST (UK) »
There was coverage of the trial in the Australian newspapers

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/175921678 5 August 1907 (noting this one gives date and place of birth of Lottie's first child as 19 November 1906, 122 Western Street, Swansea)

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/175927327 6 August 1907
"When one of the children was produced, in court the female prisoner broke down and wept with apparent bitterness. The cause of her tears was understood when it transpired that this particular child was her own."

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/208965972  24 August 1907

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/77842967 4 Sept 1907

I should note here that Liverpool and Swansea are also names of towns/cities in New South Wales, Australia.

JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
I do not have a face book or a twitter account.

Offline Rosinish

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,300
  • PASSED & PAST
    • View Profile
Re: But ..what happened to the babies ...?
« Reply #5 on: Monday 24 October 16 04:28 BST (UK) »
I see now,

I.d like to know if there were any Charlotte's or Lottie Bourne in  S.   .

Where exactly is "S"?

Lottie Bourne waitress actress of Shropshire

Can you please refer to exactly what/where you mean when relating to subjects?  :)

We read 100's of threads & don't do "text" abbreviation in that form, very frustrating when you go back to a thread to have to scroll back to find out what/where etc. as it's hard to recall all we read.

Thanks (in future)  ;D

Annie

Added....OP has edited her post to include the info. needed since my posting.
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline brigidmac

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,542
  • Computer incompetent but stiil trying
    • View Profile
Re: But ..what happened to the babies ...?
« Reply #6 on: Monday 24 October 16 05:31 BST (UK) »
Sorry
Had to do it all from memory so posted place name as S
While checking article didn't want to get place wrong

Shrewsbury England

According to one artcle her own baby was born in 1906 ... (transcribe d as 1909)

I have some visual probe so type then check afterwards and also have eye strain when reading long texts
Hence wanting some help with this

Isn't trove great and this must have been a big scandal to reach Oz newspapers

It's early am here

I will reread your comments modify my post if not clear
Read all the links

And get back to you ...the woman on my avatar may be Lottie Bourne s daughter ..do you think there is any resemblance

I.ve been trying for two days to learn to post pics on here

The reason
Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid smith jones,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson

Offline brigidmac

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,542
  • Computer incompetent but stiil trying
    • View Profile
Re: But ..what happened to the babies ...?
« Reply #7 on: Monday 24 October 16 05:53 BST (UK) »
Appreciate the smiley faces with the corrections Annie


it's looking more and more likely to be my ggma Charlotte Roberts..the baby doing well with foster parents could have been my Nana maisie .

Tho that was year her foster mum died the foster grandparents were kindly souls and another daughter lived next door so maisie have"cousins"


The baby who caused her to cry in court could be the respectable son referred to in a letter of rejection from Charlotte to her birth daughter when she was traced

I will try and post link to the thread about disappearing G BMW

She said she was respectabley married with a son

I suppose she may have meant respectable now her prison service was over ....maybe she got her son back ..or had another

First we need to prove that there was no such person as Lottie bourne or find the identity of this particular baby ....can calculate a close birth date ...

The oz papers are better written than the one with the pic ...easier to follow


Brit sleuths will be waking up now and on the case !
Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid smith jones,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson

Offline brigidmac

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,542
  • Computer incompetent but stiil trying
    • View Profile
Re: But ..what happened to the babies ...?
« Reply #8 on: Monday 24 October 16 06:04 BST (UK) »
Here is the link to looking for. Charlotte Roberts

The refs to Lottie Bourne occur on page 9

I was sure her age had been given as 20 somewhere

But no I've seen the description from a 1907 newspaper saying her baby had been born in 1907 I know to take a dollop of salt with dates ...of course I would love a time travelling great gma
Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid smith jones,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson