Author Topic: Alexander Ross, born c1782  (Read 9197 times)

Offline BassinghamTerrier

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Re: Alexander Ross, born c1782
« Reply #54 on: Monday 14 November 16 12:16 GMT (UK) »
I've discovered the death of his wife, Jane (nee Swanson); it was there on ScotlandsPeople. What threw me was the age at death.

She died of protracted "heart disease" in Hayton, Old Machar, Aberdeen on 26th August 1856 aged 63 - so she wasn't born c1801 in Caithness; it looks like rather earlier c1793, which makes her marriage in 1812 much more respectable! :)

Apparently she is buried in Old Machar Churchyard - is it still there? - and her husband, Alexander Ross, was present at her death.

Small steps ...

With regard to her birth/baptism, I note that there is a tree on Ancestry which features the same Jane Swanson with parents George Swanson and Ann Miller (I believe that this should be Millen) which has a birth of 14th Feb 1856, Halkirk, Caithness, but I haven't been able to corroborate this anywhere. As usual, the tree on Ancestry doesn't have any sources either. :(

MT ;)
Researching ...
PASHBY in Scarborough, Levisham, and outlying area
SEDMAN in Scarborough, Scalby, Everley and Hackness
BIRD in Easington, Patrington, Sculcoates and Hull
DOBSON in Edinburgh, Wakefield, York and Scarborough
SUTTON in Wintringham and Scarborough
ROSS in Edinburgh and outlying districts

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline BassinghamTerrier

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Re: Alexander Ross, born c1782
« Reply #55 on: Sunday 27 November 16 11:57 GMT (UK) »
Curiosity got the better of me; I looked at the original of that 1861 census. It definitely says Margaret Skinner is the daughter-in-law of Alexander Ross, and that she is unmarried.

Now, the term daughter-in-law can also mean stepdaughter in Scotland.

She died at Blairshinnoch on 19 June 1861, aged 52 (3 years younger than she was six weeks before!), parents Alexander Skinner and Helen Copland. The informant was Alexr Ross, relative.

So she was definitely related .... so if we can work back until we find a familiar name in her tree, that should help.

Alexander Skinner and Helen Copland had

Elspet, baptised 25 September 1797 in Rathven
John, baptised 15 April 1802 in Rathven

However they omitted to get married until 27 July 1799 in Rathven.

According to the 1861 census and her death certificate Margaret would have been born between 1805 and 1809.

In 1841 they were in New Buckie
Alexander Skinner, 65, grocer
Helen Coupland, 65
Isabella Thomson, 50
Margt Skinner, 25
Helen Davidson, 12
Mary Grive, 3

That puts Margaret’s birth back to between 1811 and 1816.

There’s a grave in Rathven Old Cemetery of Alexander Skinner, died 22 December 1844 aged 74, and Helen Skinner, died 22 December 1848 aged 82. Alexander’s listing in LIBINDX says he was the father of Helen and Margaret Skinner.

I’m not getting anywhere further back than that, however.

UPDATE

I think that I've cracked it; here she is!

"Statutory Marriage 168/02 0099 When and Where Married: 25 August 1856 at 58 Spital Old Aberdeen Name and Profession: John Ross (Bachelor) Corporal Royal Artillery Age: 29 Usual Residence: 58 Spital Old Aberdeen Name Surname and Profession of Father: Alexander Ross Labourer Name and Maiden Surname of Mother: Jane Ross M.S. Swanson Name and Profession: Mary Greive (Spinster) Domestic Servant Age: 19 Usual Residence: 33 School Lane Woodside Aberdeen Name Surname and Profession of Father: Alexander Greive Greive at Cullen House Name and Maiden Surname of Mother: Margaret Greive M.S. Skinner"

So she's no relative at all really, other than being the mother of the girl married by Alexander's son;  and she's hardly unmarried either, unless she's a widow?
She's also registered using her maiden name of SKINNER rather than her married surname of GREIVE.
In addition, the detail about where they were married is a good example of what you said earlier - they seem to have been wed at John's home. :)

MT ;)
Researching ...
PASHBY in Scarborough, Levisham, and outlying area
SEDMAN in Scarborough, Scalby, Everley and Hackness
BIRD in Easington, Patrington, Sculcoates and Hull
DOBSON in Edinburgh, Wakefield, York and Scarborough
SUTTON in Wintringham and Scarborough
ROSS in Edinburgh and outlying districts

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Alexander Ross, born c1782
« Reply #56 on: Sunday 27 November 16 16:48 GMT (UK) »
I think that I've cracked it; here she is!

"Statutory Marriage 168/02 0099 When and Where Married: 25 August 1856 at 58 Spital Old Aberdeen Name and Profession: John Ross (Bachelor) Corporal Royal Artillery Age: 29 Usual Residence: 58 Spital Old Aberdeen Name Surname and Profession of Father: Alexander Ross Labourer Name and Maiden Surname of Mother: Jane Ross M.S. Swanson Name and Profession: Mary Greive (Spinster) Domestic Servant Age: 19 Usual Residence: 33 School Lane Woodside Aberdeen Name Surname and Profession of Father: Alexander Greive Greive at Cullen House Name and Maiden Surname of Mother: Margaret Greive M.S. Skinner"

More like sister-in-law and hardly unmarried - unless she's a widow?
She's also registered using her maiden name of SKINNER rather than her married surname of GREIVE.

Unless Mary was illegitimate, and wasn't quite truthful about her parents' marital status. This would tie in with the 1841 census, where Mary Grive, aged 3, and Margaret Skinner were in the household of Alexander Skinner in New Buckie.

There's a bit of a shortage of Alexander Grieves, however. The only one in Banffshire in 1851 is a widower, aged 31, farm labourer at Brountoun in the parish of Rathven. He is probably the one recorded aged 24 in the 1841 census, a farm servant in Buckie.

Interestingly, the one in 1841 is in the household of James Kessack, and there is a marriage of an Alexander Grieve to Isabell Kissach in Rathven in 1839. LIBINDX http://libindx.moray.gov.uk/people/mainfilter.asp has a reference to this marriage from the Roman Catholic register, which says that Alexander's parents were James Grieve and Helen Murdoch, and that Isabel's were James Kessoch and Helen Murdoch. (Yes, both mothers named as Helen Murdoch.)

They had three children: James 1840; Isabella 1841; Alexander 1843. I have failed to find any of the three children in the 1851 census so far.

In 1853 one Alexander Grieve married Helen Geddes in Enzie, and this couple are in Enzie, he described as a salmon fisher, aged 47 in 1861 and in Rathven aged 70 in 1881. So again curiosity got the better of me.

Alexander Grieve, general labourer, aged 75, married first to Margaret [sic] Kessack and second to Helen Geddes, died in Buckie on 25 March 1888. His parents were James Grieve and Helen Murdoch.

So this is what I think the story is.
Alexander Grieve is born in 1811 to James Grieve and Helen Murdoch.
In 1837/8 he fathers an illegitimate daughter, Mary, by Margaret Skinner
In 1839 he marries Isabella Kissack (many spelling variations possible)
In 1840 their son James in born 
In 1841 Alexander is recorded in the household of his parents-in-law, described as a farm servant, aged 24
In 1841 their daughter Isabella is born
In 1843 their son Alexander is born
Between 1843 and 1851 Isabella Kissack of Grieve dies
In 1851 Alexander is recorded, a widower aged 31, farm labourer, in Brountoun
In 1853 Alexander marries Helen Geddes
In 1856 Mary marries, and describes her father as a farm grieve at Cullen House
In 1861 Alexander is described as a salmon fisher and living in Enzie, aged 47
In 1881 he is also described as a salmon fisher and living in Enzie, aged 70
In 1888 Alexander dies aged 75, described as a general labourer

You can, and you should, verify all of this by looking up the original documents on SP.

None of which gets anyone any further with the parentage of Alexander Ross :(
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Alexander Ross, born c1782
« Reply #57 on: Sunday 27 November 16 16:57 GMT (UK) »
I've discovered the death of his wife, Jane (nee Swanson) ....
She died .... in Hayton, Old Machar, Aberdeen on 26th August 1856 ....
With regard to her birth/baptism, I note that there is a tree on Ancestry which features the same Jane Swanson with parents George Swanson and Ann Miller (I believe that this should be Millen) which has a birth of 14th Feb 1856, Halkirk, Caithness, but I haven't been able to corroborate this anywhere.
Does A******y really suggest that someone born on 14 February 1856 could have grown up, married, had a family and then died at the ripe old age of six months and twelve days?

Who does the death certificate say that her parents were?
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.


Offline BassinghamTerrier

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Re: Alexander Ross, born c1782
« Reply #58 on: Sunday 27 November 16 17:50 GMT (UK) »
I've discovered the death of his wife, Jane (nee Swanson) ....
She died .... in Hayton, Old Machar, Aberdeen on 26th August 1856 ....
With regard to her birth/baptism, I note that there is a tree on Ancestry which features the same Jane Swanson with parents George Swanson and Ann Miller (I believe that this should be Millen) which has a birth of 14th Feb 1856, Halkirk, Caithness, but I haven't been able to corroborate this anywhere.
Does A******y really suggest that someone born on 14 February 1856 could have grown up, married, had a family and then died at the ripe old age of six months and twelve days?

Who does ther death certificate say that her parents were?
Oops! My mistake. Well spotted, Forfarian.
14th February 1793, Halkirk, Caithness.
I mixed up the birth year with that of her death. Sorry.
Parents as per suggested - George Swanson and Ann Miller.

MT ;)
Researching ...
PASHBY in Scarborough, Levisham, and outlying area
SEDMAN in Scarborough, Scalby, Everley and Hackness
BIRD in Easington, Patrington, Sculcoates and Hull
DOBSON in Edinburgh, Wakefield, York and Scarborough
SUTTON in Wintringham and Scarborough
ROSS in Edinburgh and outlying districts

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline BassinghamTerrier

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Re: Alexander Ross, born c1782
« Reply #59 on: Sunday 27 November 16 21:28 GMT (UK) »
None of which gets anyone any further with the parentage of Alexander Ross :(

Now then, I have finally found the evidence for the December 1861 marriage between Alexander Ross and Jane McLeod. I was hoping that unlike the 1812 marriage to his first wife Jane Swanson this one might reveal his parents - and it does! Unfortunately, it simply muddies the waters a little further ...

On this marriage record his parents are listed as DONALD Ross (Shoemaker - deceased) and Isabell Ragg (deceased).

So, this leads me to think that these are the CORRECT names for his parents as Alexander himself would have informed the Registrar. Agreed? When Alexander dies in 1873, his death is reported/informed by an illegible name - Mr Allan something? (see attachment) - but it's clearly NOT his wife or offspring as far as I can see, so that person probably did not know for sure who his parents were, hence the error in naming the father as DANIEL.

As for the other Greive and Skinner family line I am not going to pursue that as it goes off at too much of a tangent from my direct line. Thanks for doing some digging though - much appreciated! :)

MT ;)
Researching ...
PASHBY in Scarborough, Levisham, and outlying area
SEDMAN in Scarborough, Scalby, Everley and Hackness
BIRD in Easington, Patrington, Sculcoates and Hull
DOBSON in Edinburgh, Wakefield, York and Scarborough
SUTTON in Wintringham and Scarborough
ROSS in Edinburgh and outlying districts

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Alexander Ross, born c1782
« Reply #60 on: Sunday 27 November 16 22:00 GMT (UK) »
No, no, don't worry about that. Even though they are of totally different origins, the names Donald and Daniel are used interchangeably in parts of Scotland. So when you mislay a Daniel, look for him as Donald, and vice versa.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline BassinghamTerrier

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Re: Alexander Ross, born c1782
« Reply #61 on: Sunday 27 November 16 22:03 GMT (UK) »
No, no, don't worry about that. Even though they are of totally different origins, the names Donald and Daniel are used interchangeably in parts of Scotland. So when you mislay a Daniel, look for him as Donald, and vice versa.
Ahhh ... that's most interesting! Thank you for that.
Now to find a baptism for an Alexander Ross to Daniel/Donald Ross and Isabell(a) Ragg c1782 ...

I'm told that there is one 18th Oct 1872 in Rathven, Banff, but this is only a POSSIBILITY; there are no parents named on this birth or perhaps they are illegible.

MT ;)
Researching ...
PASHBY in Scarborough, Levisham, and outlying area
SEDMAN in Scarborough, Scalby, Everley and Hackness
BIRD in Easington, Patrington, Sculcoates and Hull
DOBSON in Edinburgh, Wakefield, York and Scarborough
SUTTON in Wintringham and Scarborough
ROSS in Edinburgh and outlying districts

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Alexander Ross, born c1782
« Reply #62 on: Sunday 27 November 16 22:36 GMT (UK) »
I see there's a baptism of James Ross, parents Donald Ross and Isobel Rag, in the parish of Duffus, county of Moray, on 17 December 1775.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.