shot in the dark

[Valda]

The website I gave in my first email lists the databases online. This is the direct link to the court-martial database from that web page.

http://www.collectionscanada.ca/archivianet/02010702_e.html

Enter Frank Taylor
and you get

Court Martials of the First World War
Name: Taylor, Frank 
Regimental number: 859457 
Rank: Sergeant 
Unit: 43rd Bn 
Date: 1919 
Offence: 20(2) 
Remarks: 
Reference: RG150 - Ministry of the Overseas Military Forces of Canada , series 8 , File 649-T-2343 , microfilm reel number T-8683 , file access code 90 , finding aid number 150-5 

If you then click online help, it explains what the numbers mean next to offence -as in the 20(2) next to Frank's name.

Offences in Relation to Persons in Custody
Section 20 covered officers and men who had been given the task of guarding prisoners. Such men could be charged for releasing a prisoner without the proper authority; or allowing a prisoner to escape.
Section 22 covered attempting to escape from custody.

Regards
Valda

[valerie1]

wow that was quick, Have posted message on The great war forum hoping to gain info oh what regiments were at Kinmel.
Thanks for reply
Valerie

[Valda]

It might be a good idea to email the Canadian archives directly and ask whether this particular soldier was at Kinmel. You have his details from the court-martial and if you look him up under First World War soldiers on their database, you get the first and last page of his army attestation papers. Since you know his army number and regiment, they might be prepared to do a quick look up for you. That way you can just either eliminate him or find he is a definite possibility in which case I would commit and order both his attestation papers and his court martial details.

I presume the Great War forum can tell you what regiments were at Kinmel (the riots are documented), but I would be less sure they could tell you what regiments were still at Kinmel in November, or small parts of regiments, since the whole regiment or a whole battalion, as opposed to detachments or corps might not be so easy to ascertain. A detachment guarding prisoners does not necessarily show up on the whole regiment's movements.

Regards
Valda

[valerie1]

Hi Valda

My title a shot in the dark was not far off was it?
Its great the attestation papers are on line but having a good search  on this fantastic site it appears the  demob papers not sure thats the correct term are not that would really narrow it down.

I cant stop saying thanks for all your help at one time I was prepaired to put Frank to rest but the itch keeps comming back
Regards Valerie

[Valda]

They are the attestation papers, so what he signs when he signs on, and then his whole service record including the date he was discharged. Canadian service records can be very detailed - pages and pages long. In comparison this country's service records for soldiers in the First World War are pretty poor, even where they have survived. The Canadian records are very detailed usually giving dental records, hospital temperature charts etc. and exactly where a man was serving and when.

The Canadian archives have given you merely a flavour of each man's attestation papers by putting the first and last pages of their service record online. Neither page contains the man's service history - where the man was and when, or when they was discharged. So yes the full attestation papers would help narrow it down.

I have 14 Canadian soldiers attestation papers from the First World War. I have just counted the pages for the first soldier (Alfred)- he has 59 pages in his service record. Not all the others have quite so many pages, but just looking, it looks like some have more or about the same. The smallest number of pages I have are for two men who enlisted in 1918, James' being the least -  with just 5 pages. All the rest of the men have many more pages than him.

My advice from my last email still stands - contact the Canadian archives.
May be this Frank Taylor isn't the right man, but may be he is a possibility. If you don't contact the Canadian archives you are never going to know. Only the Canadian archives can really help you narrow down the possibilities (it might need a researcher to look through all the attestation papers in the end) if this Frank Taylor is a false lead, but then you would have checked all the Frank Taylor's who served in the Canadian army, so you would know whether you have any other possibilities and who they were, plus a detailed description of them.

However it is up to you. Either put Frank to rest and forget the itching because it won't do any good and it won't get you anywhere, or contact the archives and move forward - bearing in mind the forward still might lead to a dead end, but at least then you know you have exhausted all the possible avenues of research open to you.

As yet I am not convinced your title, a shot in the dark, was spot on. I think you still have some way to go until that's really proven!

If you do contact the Canadian archives and find anything out, I'm sure we would all be pleased to hear how you got on.

Regards
Valda

[titanic]

To Valerie1

Hi i know this has nothing to do with the message you have posted, but am wondering if you could help me, am trying to locate someone who was based at kinmel camp in the early 1980's. Am just wondering weather you could suggest any way of finding records. I lived in bodelwyddan for many years and i have heard stories about the riot for years it was a sad time by all accounts. I hope you can help i am trying to locate my father i only have limited knowledge about him i haven't even got a last name. Am just so desperate to find my father. Please help!!!!!!!!!!!

[Valda]

Modern army records are held by the Ministry of Defence and would only be released for the man himself or if dead his proven next of kin. As you don't have a regiment or a name the Ministry could not search because they wouldn't know where to start.
I would suggest you visit somewhere like your local Citizen's Advice Bureau who could better advise you.

Regards

Valda