William John Thomas, Pontypridd

[Deirdre784]

Wondering if anyone can help with this:

I'm looking for William John Thomas, son of William Frederick Thomas and Elizabeth Emily (Bessie) Minton, who were married at Eglwysilan on 14 Sep 1896.

In 1901 William and Bessie were at 51 Coedpenmaen Rd, Pontypridd with daughter Jane (registered as Elizabeth Jane, later known as Jennie), aged 1.

In 1911 they were at 6 Dewi Street, Pontypridd with Jenny (11), Lily 8 and Harry (5). They have been married for 15 years, had 4 children, all still alive.

When Jennie married William Brooks on 8 Dec 1919, one of the witnesses was a William John Thomas.

Bessie's death (21 Sep 1949) was registered by W J Thomas, son, of 42 Thurston Rd, Pontypridd. So this would appear to be the child missing from the 1911, and the witness at Jennie's marriage.

His father's WW1 service record from 1917 includes William John as a child but this has been crossed out, presumably as the birth date appears to say 18 years 7 months / 1899 (see image attached). The address looks to be 31 Coedpenmaen Rd, Pontypridd - they were at 51 in 1901.

But even with the new GRO search facility I can't find a birth record for him, the only William John Thomas birth in Pontypridd in 1899 had a mmn of Jenkins.   

Nor can I find him on either the 1901 or the 1911. Any suggestions gratefully received. Thanks in advance.

[keyboard86]

Hi I believe you will find this is the W J Thomas who was residing at 42, Thurston Street:-

Marriage 24th February 1925 Llantwit Fardre

William John Thomas 27 occ Miner abode 6, Dewi Street, Coedpenmain Father William Frederick Thomas occ Roadman
Gladys Gertrude Turner 22 Father William Henry Turner occ Miner ( Deceased)
Keyboard86

[Deirdre784]

Brilliant, thanks keyboard86.

May i ask where you found that?

Deirdre

Edited to add: found it thanks, using Gladys.

[keyboard86]

  The one that has the 1939 Register, which provides an address search and then exact date of birth!
Also the Glamorgan marriages😁
Keyboard86

[Deirdre784]

Found them on the 1939 now thanks 😀

Wonder what happened to his birth registration and where he was on the censuses. I was doubting his existence 😳

[keyboard86]

Hi again, ok let's reboot this to see if any new eyes can locate William John Thomas b c 16th June 1897 possibly Pontypridd,  the only one with surname Thomas who stands out in 1901/11 is the plain William Thomas shown as b c 1897 Pontypridd as a Grandson with a Martha Evans in both census, not really happy with this one, but never had one like this on forum
Keyboard86

EDIT A couple on new GRO records mmn Evans?

[Deirdre784]

Hi again, ok let's reboot this to see if any new eyes can locate William John Thomas b c 16th June 1897 possibly Pontypridd,  the only one with surname Thomas who stands out in 1901/11 is the plain William Thomas shown as b c 1897 Pontypridd as a Grandson with a Martha Evans in both census, not really happy with this one, but never had one like this on forum
Keyboard86

Thanks Keyboard, good of you to explore! I should add that WJT is the brother of my husband's great grandmother so I haven't got any certificates, but have managed to find all the basic info on the other siblings.

His paternal grandparents were John and Martha Thomas - Martha was in Sion Street, Pontypridd in 1901 and died there in 1903, registered by her husband, though he wasn't at home in 1901. Not found his death nor where he was in 1911 (but not at Sion Street).       

His maternal grandparents Thomas Minton and Sarah Davies were not actually married, though Bessie's birth certificate claims they were. Thomas Minton was living in Dorstone, Herefordshire in 1901 and 1911 with his wife, and Sarah Davies was in Mill Street, Abergavenny in 1901 and 1911.

So WJT is not with either set of his actual grandparents, or his parents, a real mystery. 

[keyboard86]

OK so going on later records he always appears close to William Frederick etc, have you checked out the Martha Evans /William Thomas scenario?
Keyboard85

[Deirdre784]

Sorry Keyboard, your message came in as was typing this.

Typical  , typing this up made me remember that Bessie was living with an uncle Silas Sheppard in 1891 (listed as Bessy Sheppard).

Not sure where Silas and his wife Elizabeth fit into the family but have now found them on the 1911 and WJT is with them , listed as W Thomas, nephew, aged 13.

Can't find Silas and Elizabeth immediately on the 1901 but that's one puzzle sorted.