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Author Topic: Reynolds Southwark  (Read 5345 times)

Offline J.J.

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Re: Reynolds Southwark
« Reply #27 on: Tuesday 27 December 16 05:44 GMT (UK) »
More of interest than a real help, as always...but posting anyway.

Noting: that Robert Wear of 45 Red Cross Street, Borough, broker of household goods, who was in business with William Blunt, (executors of James Dale) married Hannah Dale
Robert Wear  spouse: Hannah Dale  marriage: 23 July 1810  Saint Dionis Backchurch, London, Eng

( you had also noted James Dale was apprenticed to Robert Wear )

Robert Wear Red Cross St. Insured to 1830 started off as a corn chandler and carpenter in (1809 -1811 insurance) then became an auctioneer/ broker of goods
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=robert+wear+%22+red*cross*street%22

ST GEORGE THE MARTYR, SOUTHWARK father: Robert Wear  mother: Hannah
John Wear  birth: 14 January 1811 christening: 7 February 1811    
William Wear birth: 13 October 1813   christening: 8 November 1813
Charles Wear  birth: 20 June 1818  christening: 16 July 1818

Will of Robert Wear, Broker- St George the Martyr Southwark     10 June 1834
Wear, Robert 1770 — 1834 Greater London Burial Index  Southwark, St Saviour,  Surrey

Hannah Wear & daughter Hannah Norton in 1841, Res Mint Street https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQKF-LTH
1851 Lambeth https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGTZ-7QD 
*modified for incorrect date  -1861  gives  birth place Chithurst? Surrey  https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2MG-ZPG6

Greenstreet, Hannah — 1806 Greater London Burial Index Camberwell, St Giles, Surrey, England
which is where Hanna Greenstreet married James Dale...

I was hoping for a birth for hannah...But there are many missing births, so doubt if this could be proven...
see a  Richard Greenstreet & Hannah Atkins m. 21 February 1774 Saint Leonards, Shoreditch
Mary Greenstreet  christening: February 1774 Lambeth, Surrey, England   
father: Richard Greenstreet  mother: Hannah

Elizabeth Greenstreet christening: 25 July 1777 SAINT SAVIOUR, SOUTHWARK, SURREY no parents listed!!!

 
"We search for information, but the burden of proof is always with the thread owner" J.J.

Canadian  census  transcribed  data  ©2005 www.AutomatedGenealogy.com

Offline AlanWatson

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Re: Reynolds Southwark
« Reply #28 on: Tuesday 27 December 16 14:59 GMT (UK) »
Well done again JJ. The banns clearly show Hannah Dale widow and Robert Wear widower, so it was plainly Hannah nee Greenstreet the widow of James Dale (1767-1807) who married. As you know her daughter Hannah Dale (spinster) married Richard Norton in 1815.

Robert was buried at St Saviour on 28 April 1834. His will, dated 1830, makes some personal bequests to wife Hannah and appoints her, Charles Smith and one other of administrator of the estate to provide for two sons, Robert Bullard Wear (on attaining 23 years) and John Wear (on attaining 21) and one daughter Elizabeth Bullard Wear. John Bullard might just be the John whose birth you have, and Robert might just be from the first marriage, but I don't see Charles or William in the will.

I haven't had time to look through the children yet, for the Bullard name, Robert's birth or the others' deaths.

As you remind us, Robert Wear was the apprentice master of his later step son James. Robert Wear senior, son of John Wear was apprenticed to Thomas Wear to be a grocer in 1785 when he was about 15. Robert Wear junior of Mint was apprenticed to become a fishmonger in 1812. Rather confusingly, Thomas Norton, son of Richard Norton of Red Cross st was apprenticed to Robert Wear in 1833, to become a grocer rather that a fishmonger, suggesting that his master was Robert senior or that Robert junior had inherited his father's citizenship rather than finishing his apprenticeship.

The image of the 1841 census shows James Dale, broker (48) and wife Albertine (ditto) living next door to the two Hannahs. This was probably Albertina Burgess who married James Dale in Horsleydown, Surrey on 27 March 1813.

Ancestry transcribes Hannah Greenstreet/Dale/Wear's place of birth in 1861 (you mis-write 1871) as Christchurch, Surrey, which looks correct to me. I assume that this was Christchurch parish in Southwark.

A Hannah Norton b abt 1798 died in Camberwell on 21 June 1878 but it seems that she (and her grandsons who proved her will) were all licensed victuallers. I can't see any evidence that our Hannah was, so this may not have been her. Even so, there is an Ancestry tree showing our family having grandchildren matching the executors.

Alan

Offline J.J.

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Re: Reynolds Southwark
« Reply #29 on: Tuesday 27 December 16 17:34 GMT (UK) »
ah,...well, I was going by her claims of birth being in 1776, I keep forgetting the vanity part of giving one's proper age on a census... Oh, wait I read your post again, 1861 was the year of the census. ( have modified to change date) Sorry if my post was confusing. I am a two finger typist with bad eyes....haha


Mary Ann Ware  christened: 20 July 1814 CHRIST CHURCH, SOUTHWARK
father: Robert Ware  mother: Ann
Another Charles Wear (also listed as Wiar  ) birth: 15 Jan 1816 christening: ST GEO. MARTYR
father: Robert Wear mother: Hannah
Charles Ware  christening: 1 June 1817 CHRIST CHURCH, SOUTHWARK, LONDON, ENGLAND   
father: Robert Ware  mother: Ann

Bullard Elizabeth — 1794 Marriage,  Southwark St Saviour, Surrey,
Robert Bullard Wear  Christening  13 Aug 1797 SAINT SAVIOUR
 
Many children in that baptism batch file with no parents listed 
"We search for information, but the burden of proof is always with the thread owner" J.J.

Canadian  census  transcribed  data  ©2005 www.AutomatedGenealogy.com

Offline J.J.

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Re: Reynolds Southwark
« Reply #30 on: Tuesday 27 December 16 22:11 GMT (UK) »
Greenstreet, Richard — 1811 Greater London Burial Index   Camberwell, St Giles, London, Surrey, 
 Did you find a birth for Hannah Greenstreet? Reaching at straws perhaps as she was already young at marriage (did it state minor on their marriage as she was 14 or perhaps younger? No parent's permission?)
   ? Greenstreet, Rich'D   — 1750 Chartham, Kent, England
    ?  Greenstreet, Hannah   b. 1777 — 1777 Kent Baptisms Kent, England

adding
WEAR, HANNAH   —  1862 death  Lambeth, London, England  Don't see the will...Hope there is one to find


"We search for information, but the burden of proof is always with the thread owner" J.J.

Canadian  census  transcribed  data  ©2005 www.AutomatedGenealogy.com

Offline AlanWatson

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Re: Reynolds Southwark
« Reply #31 on: Wednesday 28 December 16 01:12 GMT (UK) »
1862 was after the end of the Canterbury court, so we are into the civil calendar of the probate of wills. Hannah Wear's entry reads

"The will of Hannah Wear late of Elizabeth Cottage Coldharbour Lane Brixton in the County of Surrey Widow deceased who died 6 December 1862 at Elizabeth Cottage aforesaid was proved at the Principal Registry by the oaths of Hannah Norton of Richmond Road Hackney in the County of Middlesex widow and Diana Barnes of Northfleet in the County of Kent widow the daughters and two of the Executrixes."

Presumably Ann Stead was another executrix. [I think she died before 1863]

I can see two burial records for Hannah Wears, both born in about 1775 and both buried on December 16 1862. One (index only) says that the burial was in St Giles Camberwell. (Coldharbour Lane runs from the centre of Brixton to Camberwell Green where St Giles Church is.) The other is for the Nunhead cemetery (a beautiful old Victorian cemetery, now a public park - I used to go jogging there) a mile and a half further away to the east. I can only assume that the St Giles index entry is a mistake because the Nunhead cemetery record clearly refers to Hannah Wear of Coldharbour Lane.

As Hannah Norton had moved to Hackney by 1863 (when the will was proved) it seems less likely than before that she died in Camberwell in 1878.

Alan

[Modified to amend reference to Ann Stead.]]

Offline J.J.

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Re: Reynolds Southwark
« Reply #32 on: Saturday 11 March 17 00:17 GMT (UK) »
HHHHmmmmmmmm? Another daughter for Ann ReynolDs/Dale/nEWTON?? ...Esther
St. George, Borough of Southwark, Surrey v. St. Anne, Westminster, against removal of Ann Newton and daughter Esther; with removal order, 11 Aug. 1794
see no birth, just this burial: Dale, Esther 1776  — 1806 GLB Index Southwark, St Thomas, Surrey

Sorry I do have more items of interest to post re: other Reynolds, but can't seem to get around to it.
J.J.
"We search for information, but the burden of proof is always with the thread owner" J.J.

Canadian  census  transcribed  data  ©2005 www.AutomatedGenealogy.com

Offline J.J.

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Charles & Diana Reynolds Southwark - brokers
« Reply #33 on: Tuesday 14 March 17 20:19 GMT (UK) »
Again nothing concrete...but adding these notes in case something ties them in

Ann Reynolds was not yet married to James Dale until 1766...so might she have been the Ann Reynolds who signed, with brother John, at Mary's 1st marriage in 1750?

Of course this could be coincidence...But just in case, as they are using ancestral forenames .... ?

Is it also possible John & wife Ann were not married until later as well? FHS has these:
  Chas. Reynolds christening: 12 May 1782   SAINT SAVIOUR, SOUTHWARK, SURREY, ENG   
     father: Jno. Reynolds mother: Ann
  Susanna Reynolds christening: 16 January 1785 SAINT SAVIOUR, SOUTHWARK, SURREY, ENG   
      father: John Reynolds mother: Anne

Then these burials, probably children, as father is named
  sons & a daughter of a John (occ: broker) Parish Southwark, St Thomas
      John Reynolds  Burial date 16 Feb 1772 
      Diana Reynolds   Burial date 10 Jun 1774
      Thomas Reynolds  Burial   08 Sep 1782   
      Charles Reynolds  Burial date 14 Sep 1783 

and adding these, as he did remarry...also son/dau of a John, Southwark Parish, St Thomas, Sry
(One of my husband's ancestors fathered his last child at age 70   :)
    William Henry Reynolds Burial  30 Oct 1803
    Elizabeth Reynolds  Burial date 04 Feb 1810  ( father a cabinet maker  )

"We search for information, but the burden of proof is always with the thread owner" J.J.

Canadian  census  transcribed  data  ©2005 www.AutomatedGenealogy.com
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