Todd and Buchanan mystery in Glasgow

[Susanne Buchanan]

To Skoosh and Lodger and Burr ?
Sorry I have lost the page but Charles Todd is buried in his father's lair ie David Todd and Elizabeth Todd was deported to Ryegate Vermont for a percieved indiscretion by her father and she married James Henderson. Google History of Ryegate Vermont USA for further details.
Charles Todd had a mistress Margaret Buchanan and they had 3 children Margaret Mary and David Buchanan  Margaret married Sir David Davidson, Mary married  William Middlemass a surgeon for the East India Company and David married Anna Wyndham Penruddocke and lived at Rugby and was a renowned cricketer. His son David emigrated to NZ and farmed stud Hereford cattle and Romney sheep. He is my husband's Grandfather.
We thought Charles was buried in Paris due to dying with Scarlett fever but was embalmed and now
in Ramshorn Cemetery. I can find no information on where Margaret is buried but she did marry Alexander Bate (1799-1846) in 1844. He died in Tranent and Margaret died on 12/11/1849 in Portobello .

[BurrGardner]

Thanks all for your input - especially Lodger for spending his day researching the Ramshorn/St. David's burying records!  A question:  the date is 1803; would that be the date of his death/burial or the date he purchased the lair?  Suzanne, here is a question for you:  Can you tell me more about Elizabeth's deportation?  I have a date of 1805, later than 1803.  I have the History of Ryegate book and am wondering whether all of its information is accurate.  Part of the legend that I have is that her father, David, staged a mock funeral for her and if that were true one would think an empty coffin would have been in her father's lair.  Do you have any further information about the "perceived indiscretion"?  Is Scritsal on this reply?  Scritsal indicated having plenty of information about the Todds.  Many thanks.
Burr

[Lodger]

Hi Burr,

You ask about the 1803 date. In my experience this usually refers to the date the lair was purchased or the year that the owner had the marker erected. The wording suggests that it could be either.
It cannot be assumed that this is the year of death for David, although the lair may have been purchased because a new born infant had died in the family and the plaque erected as a marker.

At this period in time (late 18th & early 19th century) there is much evidence from kirk sessions records of the Heritors instructing parishioners already in possession of lairs in the parochial churchyards and burial grounds to "mark their spots" as there had been so many disputes over existing lairs and also strangers (by that they meant newcomers) taking space that didn't belong to them.

[BurrGardner]

Thank you, Lodger.  Very helpful.
Burr

[Susanne Buchanan]

Hello Lodger and Burr
David Todd's dates: 1751-1835 and no Scritsal is not on reply. I have emailed recently but no reply yet.
Like you Burr I envisaged and empty coffin and ? a headstone for Elizabeth. In a nutshell Elizabeth had a young man in the army about to go to India and she visited the barracks chaperoned by a married couple, when a violent storm appeared and they all had to stay there overnight.
David did not approve of the young man and on her return home said she had shamed them and sent her with her maid to Ryegate to a family there. He provided money for her keep and when she eventually married James Henderson,
 David was so pleased he increased the amount of money.
He never saw Elizabeth again but when Arthur Charles Todd's sister died she left Elizabeth money.
For more info buy online the book The Safe Bridge by Frances Parkinson Keyes published by Corgi in 1970.
Although it appears to be fiction Frances knew several of Elizabeth's descendants and much is based on truth. Elizabeth arrived in Ryegate on 26/10/1805 and died on 21/10/1846 aged 58 and is buried at Ryegate. She was described as the " little Scotch lady" and was very kind. Obviously not inher
ited from her Father !!
David Todd did not recognise Margaret Buchanan either or her children and in Charles Todd's will she was to live 15 miles from Glasgow or lose her inheritance. Charles was obviously aware of his Father's rigid manner and feared for any association with his family.
John Todd, Charle's elder brother ended up with the Todd money as he lived the longest and had large bequests from Charles and Arthur and lived at Finnich Malise a large estate near Loch Lomond that was sold recently for several million.
I have just researched a book with the help of a genealogist friend on the descendants of David Buchanan and of course Todd information. We were to have a family reunion at the end of May, but due to Covid19 it will perhaps be next year . Scritsal has kindly shared information but may have much more on the Todds Burr. Check with him. I am sending him a copy but the Printers closed when it was about to be printed. I hope this helps and keep safe everyone.

[BurrGardner]

Dear Rootschat friends,

Thank you all for your insights so far.  I am also interested in David Todd's wife, Jane.  The book The Safe Bridge indicates that she was related to Sir Walter Scott.  Can anyone confirm?  Also, Scritscal indicates he/she has a lot on the Todd family but I am a new user to RootsChat and do not know how to loop him/her in on the conversation.  Can anyone facilitate?

[scritsal]

Hi all, sorry for the slow reply. Thanks Forfarian for the “heads up” on this new post, and well done Skoosh for remembering my original post.
Burr, I am guessing perhaps that you may be descended from Hugh Gardener who married one of Elizabeth Todd’s daughters? If so, I imagine that you have more information than us about Elizabeth’s circumstances - both Susanne and myself would be very interested to get any further details. Susanne has already told you everything we know so far.
As far as the Todd family themselves are concerned, most of my information is about their business interests in Scotland. Valeofleven.org.uk has some interesting details.
I have recently moved home, so a lot of my original notes are still packed away in a box somewhere. I do have copies of the wills of David, his sons Charles and John, and his daughter Arthur which I can let you have if you are interested. David doesn’t mention Elizabeth at all in his will, but the children do mention their estranged sister. The “mock funeral” that you mention sounds interesting, and I suppose that the 1803date when David purchased his lair at Ramshorn would fit??? I am intrigued as to why the lair would have been transferred to Margaret Todd in 1823. The only Margaret that seems to be connected with the Todds is Charles Todd’s partner Margaret Buchanan whom he never married (Susanne and myself are descended from Charles and Margaret). The mystery of why most of David’s children never married have been mentioned in previous posts and remain a puzzle.
The ancestors and descendants of David that I am aware of are in my public Ancestry.com tree “Critchley-Salmonson” (with the usual possibility of errors). I can send ancestor/descendant lists directly to you if you send me a private message.
The ancestors include many well known Scottish families such as yhe Yuilles, Bogles, Arthurs and Scotts. I have not been able to find any connection with Sir Walter Scott yet!
I’ll send more information if I find any.

[Skoosh]

Other folks skeletons are always of interest but you guys can also try out the "Private Message" service. Just click on their user-name! 

Todd's partner in Springfield plus a possible Todd Scott connection in these two houses,

www.glasgowwestaddress.co.uk/Old_Country_Houses/Belvidere.htm

www.glasgowwestaddress.co.uk/Old_Country_Houses/Daldowie.htm

Skoosh.

[BurrGardner]

Dear Scritsal,

Yes, I am indeed a descendant of Elizabeth Todd and Hugh Gardner.  I have read The Safe Bridge at least twice and for the last couple of weeks have been trying to wade through discrepancies, including those contained in 1) handwritten family history, 2) the Gazetteer of Orange County Vt., 1762-1888, 3) A History of Newbury, Vermont and 4) A History of Ryegate, Vermont.  I have come up with my own patched-together theory which serves only to allow me to make sense of some pretty sensational tales.  I found a  painting of one of the Todd factories which got me to wondering how David Todd financed his industries. I immediately thought he must have come from money, but could find no earlier documentation on his family beyond names and dates on www.geneanet.org.  There are a couple of fabric-related companies bearing his name which seem to have been confiscated, so perhaps they were not all successful - or there were as many corporate machinations then as now!  I also came upon a reference to some of the Todd fabrics being in the Scotland National Museum and in the Victoria & Albert Museum, but could not confirm by going to those museums' websites, so think I will not include in the family chronicle.  Yes, the 1803 lair purchase/claim date would have been a convenient repository for an empty coffin but the marker is no help in that regard.  Scritsal, Suzanne, Lodger and all my Rootschat friends, thank you so much for your contributed information.  This has been an interesting journey!
Burrgard