Author Topic: A Tragic Family?  (Read 1840 times)

Offline Doug Livingston

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A Tragic Family?
« on: Wednesday 07 December 16 07:49 GMT (UK) »
As a result of a Google search, I found a now closed thread created by tommacgregor on Tuesday 15 January 08 06:48 GMT (UK) with a name similar to the one I used when creating this thread.  He wrote (his text in blue, my comments in red):

"James Livingston(e) (b:1783) married Christian (Christina) Campbell Livingston(e) (b:1789.  Her maiden name was actually "Livingston" not "Campbell".  She and James were first cousins.  Her mother's maiden name was Campbell) on the 9th of October, 1807 when she was about 18 years of age. Her husband, James (b:1783) died 27th July, 1839.  Their first child, Archibald was born on the 25th July, 1808. His brothers and sisters were:

Agnes born 18th January, 1811 at Dalgety, FIFE (more likely Shotts, LANARK)
Grissell born 20th February, 1813 at Dalgety, FIFE (birthplace not established)
Helen born 27th March, 1815 at Dalgety, FIFE
Catharine born 5th February, 1817 at Dalgety, FIFE
Christina born 13th January, 1820 at Dalgety, FIFE (LANARK?)
Janet born 5th September, 1822 at Dalgety, FIFE (LANARK?)
Elizabeth (Betty) born 5th July, 1824 at Dalgety, FIFE
Robert born 26th August, 1826 at Dalgety, FIFE
James born 30th August, 1828 at Dalgety, FIFE (LANARK?)
Helen born 30th May, 1831 (LANARK?)

Christian (Christina) Campbell Livingston(e) was the daughter of Robert Livingston(e) and Agnes (or Ann) Campbell who married on 9th June, 1787 at Dalgetty, FIFE. James Livingston(e) was the son of Archibald Livingston(e) (Robert's older brother) and Grissel Muir who had married on 22nd June, 1782 at Dalgety in Fife. When Archibald and his _second_ wife (Jean Bain, Archibald's _first_ wife was Helen Connor, b:1811.  "Helen Muir Connor" was Helen Connor's mother) died in 1849, his mother (Christina, b:1789) took in the children. The oldest boy (grandson), James Campbell Livingston(e) emigrated to Utah in the USA in the year 1853 and his grandmother, his Uncle James (b:1828), his Aunt Helen (b:1831), and his 5 remaining siblings joined him two years later - in 1855 (They departed in December 1854 and arrived in Salt Lake City, Utah in September 1856). James (b:1828, the uncle) died in Salt Lake City on 23rd September, 1874 and Christian (Christina) Campbell Livingston(e) (b:1789, the grandmother), died two years later on 12th October, 1876 in the same State in America.

James (b:1828, the youngest brother in the family) brother, Archibald (b:1808, the oldest) died on 27th April 1849 at the age of about 41 at Shotts Iron Works in (near, actually, not in) Airdrie. James had already lost another brother, Robert, who died on 29th June, 1838 at the age of 12. He had also lost his sister, Helen (b:1815) on 28th August, 1829 at the age of 14.

I will ask researchers to have a look to see if Archibald had indeed taken a second wife, Helen Muir Connor and that James Campbell Livingston(e) was a result of that union. If the marriage is indeed factual, then James would have been about 25 when he left Scotland for Utah. Sadly, he too died young. He was only 46 years old when he died.

Tommacgregor is mixing up two different men here, The uncle James born in 1828 and the grandson James born in 1833.  He is also missing the full information on Archibald's marriages.  Archibald's first wife was Helen Connor (b:1811).  She died 16th October, 1837.  Before she did, she bore him 3 children.
James born on 2nd December, 1833 at Shotts Iron Works, Shotts, LANARK
Charles born on 16th May, 1835 at Shotts Iron Works, Shotts, LANARK
Helen born on 17th January, 1837 presumably at Shotts, LANARK

His second wife was Jean Bain.  Archibald married her on 19th February, 1840.  She bore him 4 additional children.
Jane on 12th January, 1841 at Airdrie, LANARK (she died 25th January, 1847)
Isabella on 10th July, 1843 at Airdrie, LANARK
Archibald on 7th December, 1845 at Airdrie, LANARK
William on 28th April, 1848 at Airdrie, LANARK

A tragic story indeed, but one that appears to be perfectly true. Here is one James Livingstone, born in 1828 who emigrated to America but, when one does a bit of simple arithmatic it is clear that he could not have been James Livingstone, the husband of Janet Cooper. This James had sailed from Scotland in 1853, but my Great-Grandfather, Samuel Livingstone was born in 1862 and Janet Cooper's Death Certificate dated 1870 made it crystal clear that her husband was still alive in that year. Do we therefore believe that James and Janet were still legally married even though James was not around to sign his wife's Death Certificate, a task undertaken by Janet's brother, David Cooper?"

James (b:1833) died in Utah on 17th October, 1909, over 76 years of age.  All 9 of the family members who joined the Church if Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and immigrated to Utah lived challenging but long and successful lives.  Today their descendants number well over 8,000.  Tragic?  I think not.

Offline Ruskie

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Re: A Tragic Family?
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 07 December 16 08:29 GMT (UK) »
Welcome to rootschat Doug.

I don't think that Tom is a member of rootschat any more, however if he still visits the site or googles these names, this thread should show up in his results.

I think you would have been able to reply directly on his thread rather than starting one of your own, unkess it was locked (I will check in a minute).  :) *

I remember reading some of Tom's threads a few years ago, and I think there were other people researching the same families, so you will be helping them too by correcting any errors.

*added: I see that this thread is locked and you are unable to reply.  :)

Offline tommacgregor1936

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Re: A Tragic Family?
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 16 May 18 08:53 BST (UK) »
Hi. Glad to be back. I have written details from American government about William Livingstone.  This  gives his arrival in America circa 1920 and departure prior to his death.  Regards tommacgregor1936

Offline Ruskie

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Re: A Tragic Family?
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 16 May 18 12:42 BST (UK) »
Doug Livingston was last logged on to rootschat on 10th December 2016 and this is the only post he made.

I have re read Doug's post in which he made corrections to a previous thread, and the only William Livingstone I could see mentioned was William, son of Archibald and Jean Bain born on 28th April, 1848 in Airdrie.

Is this the William Livingstone you say arrived in America c 1920?