Author Topic: Help needed re Austrian WW1 Internee from Scotland  (Read 795 times)

Offline Sinkler

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Help needed re Austrian WW1 Internee from Scotland
« on: Monday 12 December 16 14:53 GMT (UK) »
I have been looking for my great grandfather, an Austrian in Scotland in 1914. I am in contact with Knockaloe and Stobs, I have been through all the Red Cross lists, checked the National Archive lists through FindmyPast, gone through newspapers in 1914, and trawled the 1911 census. Is there anywhere I have missed? I have 30 possibilities but none are close enough so far. All I know is that he was from Linz, called Josef/Joseph, his surname was phonetically like Schermeiser, he met my g grandmother in Pitlochry, she had a baby in Edinburgh from him in May 1915 so conception circa August 1914. He is not on the birth certificate. She was Clara Madeline Laing, the baby was Florence Ellen Laing 17.5.15. I do not think that he was the Joseph Capake/Capek reported as arrested in Pitlochry in late 1914, as the name is too different. Other than the camps, who are searching on my behalf, is there anywhere else I can look does anyone know? All ideas welcome. Thanks
Sinclair, Simpson, Maguire, Cook, Tait, Chalmers, Laing, Thomson, Maloney, Thomas, Edwards, Hill,

Offline arthurk

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Re: Help needed re Austrian WW1 Internee from Scotland
« Reply #1 on: Monday 12 December 16 16:21 GMT (UK) »
I've been trying to think back 40+ years to my German teacher at school, who was Austrian, and his accent, and then how a Scot might transcribe what they heard or how they themselves would pronounce it.

I can't guarantee that I'm right, but if the first part of the surname "Scherm-" was unstressed and short, is it possible that the name was actually something like Schmeiser, Schmeisser, Schmeizer or Schmeitzer? All those appear to be feasible German/Austrian surnames; between them they have 3 different pronunciations depending on the middle letters, but someone who didn't know German might not fully appreciate the difference.

Anyway, I haven't done any research on this myself, but it might give you some more possible names to look for.

Arthur
Researching among others:
Bartle, Bilton, Bingley, Campbell, Craven, Emmott, Harcourt, Hirst, Kellet(t), Kennedy,
Meaburn, Mennile/Meynell, Metcalf(e), Palliser, Robinson, Rutter, Shipley, Stow, Wilkinson

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Offline Girl Guide

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Re: Help needed re Austrian WW1 Internee from Scotland
« Reply #2 on: Monday 12 December 16 17:15 GMT (UK) »
Could he have been a Josef Florian Schneider?

FindMyPast has one born in 1870 and Austrian.  You give no indication of when he was born so I don't know if the above is likely.
Ashford: Somerset, London
England: Devon, London, New Zealand
Holdway: Wiltshire
Hooper: Bristol, Somerset
Knowling: Devon, London
Southcott: Devon, China
Strong: Wiltshire
Watson: Cambridgeshire
White: Bristol
Windo - Gloucestershire, Somerset, Wiltshire

Offline Sinkler

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Re: Help needed re Austrian WW1 Internee from Scotland
« Reply #3 on: Monday 12 December 16 17:30 GMT (UK) »
Arthur, thank you. Having waded through thousands of records I have expanded my options to anything Sch or similar. But the way you describe it is useful.

Girl Guide, thank you. I have seen Josef Florian and he is in the Red Cross records too I think. The fact that the baby's name was Florence and that his middle name was Florian, was quite attractive. However what makes it less likely, I think, is that he was in his mid 40s and she was about 22. That does of course not preclude them making a baby (!) but there are so many others with similar names of much younger age, so I think him less likely. If however I found him mentioned elsewhere such as in the Scottish camps, or somehow in Pitlochry, then his age would become less important. One unresolved issue I have about him is that the Red Cross records say he was from 67 Falcon St, Plaistow and came from Bodenstadt, Bez Mahrisch, Weiskirchen which I think is in Germany and not near Linz. But I am no expert in mid European geography! Thanks again. all these comments are so much appreciated.
Sinclair, Simpson, Maguire, Cook, Tait, Chalmers, Laing, Thomson, Maloney, Thomas, Edwards, Hill,


Offline amberdog

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Re: Help needed re Austrian WW1 Internee from Scotland
« Reply #4 on: Monday 12 December 16 20:11 GMT (UK) »
Hi Sinkler, I'm also trying to find more information on a German that was transferred from Edinburgh to Knockaloe.  I've found him via the Red Cross files and just wanted to let you know that there is meant to be additional information being added to this data base when I last enquired.  My understanding was the additional WW1 info was to be added around the same time WW2 POW records were released.  That was meant to be this year!

There is very little information that still survives for the internees held here unfortunately. There are records at the National Archives but finding an individual is near on impossible I'm lead to believe.

Most POWs were deported when the war ended.  Very few were granted permission to remain in the UK.  Those married to a British national or with British born children had the stronger case when petitioning the government to remain here.

I did enquire whether the National Archives at Kew held files on the POWs who asked to remain here, but they never responded.

Offline Sinkler

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Re: Help needed re Austrian WW1 Internee from Scotland
« Reply #5 on: Monday 12 December 16 20:48 GMT (UK) »
Hi Amberdog, That's great that you found that German. I know that, initially, about 250 were detained in Edinburgh, so I am hoping that somehow I shall find Jospeh as ,numerically at least, he us one of a relatively small group. I went through the Red Cross records online only a week ago and pulled out 30 possible Josephs with "Sch" type surnames or recorded birth in Linz. I just wish there was somewhere to cross reference these. Knockaloe say they will look for me, and Stobs as well. Maybe I should ask the National Archives the same question that you did - my worry is that, having read the records that are online, they will only have details of internees from England and Wales. Oh well, I shall keep looking. Thanks so much for your reply.
Sinclair, Simpson, Maguire, Cook, Tait, Chalmers, Laing, Thomson, Maloney, Thomas, Edwards, Hill,

Offline amberdog

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Re: Help needed re Austrian WW1 Internee from Scotland
« Reply #6 on: Monday 12 December 16 21:46 GMT (UK) »
Hiya, been giving this more thought.  Don't be put off that he may have been a good deal older.  My great aunt married the German I'm researching in 1924 in Glasgow, a few years after he had been released from Knockaloe. He died in his late 40s in 1928.  My great aunt was a good 20+ years younger than him.

 My Herman must have been granted permission to remain in Britain due to his two Scottish born sons from his first marriage.  Herman's first wife, an Aberdonian, died early 1914, just a few months before Herman would have had to report to the police as a foreign enemy alien. 

My hope is the new WW1 material will shed some light on where his young boys were brought up while he was detained on the Isle of Man. 

I thought about the Valuation Rolls at Scotlandspeople and using the search term 'Sch' in surname and names beginning with 'Jo' in the forename search field.  These three are from the 1905 rolls.  Joseph Schimdt, tenant at Stables, 30 West Forth Street, Kilrenny, Joseph Schneider, tenant at Dwelling House 119 Meigle Street, Galashiels and Joseph Schulman, proprietor House Richinwood, London Road, Glasgow.

And on the 1915 Valuation Rolls a 'John' Schermeide, tenant 295 South York Street, Gorbals.  I know this is not a Joseph or Josef, but bear in mind by 1915 tensions were running high and violence was not uncommon against those perceived to be the enemy in Scotland.  Many shops were targeted and many choose to anglicise their names to fit in/cover up their origins.

Offline Sinkler

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Re: Help needed re Austrian WW1 Internee from Scotland
« Reply #7 on: Monday 12 December 16 22:13 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for all that Amberdog. I have messaged you. John Schermeide in particular sounds interesting. She lived in Edinburgh and gave birth there, but there is no reason why he has to have been in Edinburgh if they met in Pitlochry, and I agree re the name change being possible to protect himself. Thanks so much. The hunt continues :)
Sinclair, Simpson, Maguire, Cook, Tait, Chalmers, Laing, Thomson, Maloney, Thomas, Edwards, Hill,

Offline amberdog

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Re: Help needed re Austrian WW1 Internee from Scotland
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 13 December 16 11:59 GMT (UK) »
Here's a couple of references at the National Archives.  I forgot to mention there is a good discussion going on at The Great War Forum on internees. It's free to join. I'll see if I can find the thread name for you to look up, I haven't visited their website in a while. Cheers Maria

Edited to add:- the thread name on the great war forum is called "Red Cross records to go online 4 August".  There's eight pages of input there and might give you some more tips http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php