Tower Hamlets Volunteer Brigades Tillman

[John1935]

Thanks Westoe

That looks really interesting, by this posting am asking Jim & Ken for their opinion as to whether or not our Walter might have been there? Would give me a lot of info if he was.

Not over till 1916? could as you say he might have been training people, secondly due to the fact that Mother was Totally Blind, though ( saying that his sister Rosa Elizabeth was at home)

Fuzzy logic is still pointing me to the fact he would have followed father into the Tower Hamlets Brigade, as to come in that late on seems strange to me that he would have reached Acting Sgt. in such short a time as he was back home on electoral rolls in 1919;

Best

John

[Westoe]

But....there's always a but, isn't there?

IF Walter John had been part of the Tower Hamlets Volunteers emulating his father, he MIGHT have had sufficient training and experience to have been taken into the regular army at a rank above private and he MIGHT have reached the rank of acting-sergeant on the field (seeing as there was a war on) due to the absence of any alive other candidates (battle-field promotion).

That's why finding which unit he was with and reading the war diaries seems important to me.

Cheers,
Westoe

[jim1]

That's why finding which unit he was with and reading the war diaries seems important to me.

Agree.
Without a service record you don't know which Division/Coy. he was with.
As Ken said his 6 digit no. was in a block reserved for the TF & as he would have joined a local Batt. you would have to say he joined one of those on the previous page & became part of the 1st. (London) Div. & embarked with the 2/1st. (512) but this is just educated guesswork.
If he elected not to serve overseas as a TF he would have gone into one of the Home Service Coys.
When conscription was introduced in Jan. 1916 that option was removed & although young single men were first conscripted as a TF he could easily have been embodied at that time.

[John1935]

Morning Jim
For the unknowing, in a semi static War, how would the RE be deployed, I ask as I have just come across the fact that before the war Walter was a keen cyclist with Pegasus cycle club, and I had seen on the newspaper articles that in fact Tower Hamlets had as part of the brigade a company of cyclist - wonder would these have been used as messengers?
Do the War dairies still exist ?
 Was there a 1915 STAR or only 1914 & 1916 which means no he wasn't over in 1914 but could be anytime after ?

Best

John

[km1971]

As Ken said his 6 digit no. was in a block reserved for the TF...

My reading of the guide to the TF renumbering is almost the opposite. If he was a member of the TF RE at the time of the renumbering he would have been given a number above 400000. The guide says that he had a number for the regular RE. The man with the next number joined the RE in January 1916..

John...I think I am correct in saying that you have no information pointing to Walter having any military experience before January 1916.

Ken

[John1935]

Correct Ken

Only that Father was with the T.H. as Bandmaster for nearly twenty years, otherwise could not see why he had not joined up earlier.

Best

John

[jim1]

My reading of the guide to the TF renumbering is almost the opposite.

Apologies to Ken who is correct. I got the maths wrong.
2 Stars were issued one for service overseas in 1914 commonly called the Mons Star. The other for services overseas in 1915. No more were issued.
Men who served overseas 1916-18 received the British War & Victory Medals, these included men who were recipients of the 14/15 Star still serving.
The above man only received the BW & V Medals so no pre 1916 service overseas.
RE cyclists would have been used as messengers but during the war motor cyclists were preferred. They would have been part of the Signals Coy.
The RE controlled all kinds of construction work usually supervising attached men from the Bde. Batt's. As the war went on the RE became more streamlined with specialist Coys, communication, railways, agriculture, canals & waterways etc. Their core work was trenches, dugouts, gun emplacements & tunnels.
The 1st. (London) Div. (re-numbered 56th. Div. Jan. 1916) RE diaries are on Ancestry. Start date Feb. 1916:
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=60779
By Feb. 1916 these are the 2 old 1/London Div. RE Field Coys. that joined the 56th.
512th (2/1st London) Field Company
513th (2/2nd London) Field Company
As an aside 512 took 33 cyclists.

[km1971]

It is also worth reading this - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_War_Medal

The lack of a 1914 Star or 1914-15 Star (which would have taken precedence) would entitle him to the TF(W) medal due to his overseas service. As he does not appear to be entitled to the TF(W) Medal suggests he did not have sufficient TF service.

Ken

[John1935]

 
Hello Westoe, Jim and Ken

Summary of FACT and possible Surmise


Fact : Walter's father John Tillman- in 1879 Band-Sergeant Regtl No. 1541 in the Tower Hamlets Volunteer Brigade  - Lieut. Colonel J.H.Mapleson, Commanding, was appointed Bandmaster – a post which he kept till he resigned on the 9th November 1894 – John died in 1895. AT this time his son – Walter John was 20Yrs old.

Surmise : Walter might well have joined his Father in the Brigade, in 1893 at the age of 18yrs, Cycling  (Messenger) company ?

Fact : Walter John was an experienced Cyclist with the Pegasus  Cycling Club, e.g. In 1895 he won the ‘ Half mile Bicycle Handicap in1min 25secs at Wembley Park.

Surmise : As on his Medal Card, only the 1916 Medals are showing, he might not have joined the R.E till 1915.

Fact: At that time Walter would be 40 yrs old, with a Mother ( Who by that time was Totally Blind) , he did however have an older sister living at home in Sumatra Road.
note: Mother did go into Hospital where she eventually died in 1923, it was a Mental Hospital and I do not know when she was admitted.

Surmise : 1. He had not joined up before - due to Mother.
                 2. Due to age and past experience with the T.H.? Walter stayed in U.K. training.

Maybe the fact that he did not enter R.E. till 1916 and was back in UK on electoral rolls in 1919, and also in that short time was acting Sergeant ?

or was he demobbed early due to injury or age, and already back in U.K. before spring electoral roll of 1919

 Fact : On electoral rolls 1919 – to and including spring 1923, Then married to Elizabeth Frett ( widow)  in 1924 At time living in Battersea and working as clerk in the Admiralty.

So possibility I suppose could be the 512, with the cyclist that went over in 1916, otherwise where next to look

Best

John