Turner brothers Transported - Tamworth to New South Wale- Who were their parents

[finlib10]

Hi.  Thanks for helping me with this request.  My 3 greats grandfather John Charles TURNER b abt 1811 was transported to New South Wales in 1829 on the Mellish.  He was transported with his older brother,  William b 1808 I believe in Tamworth, Staffordshire.  On his death certificate his parents are noted as William Turner and Margaret, formerly Rahiley or Reilly?? perhaps.  It is very hard to read the surname on the certificate. 

They were convicted on 19 March 1828 at Stafford Assizes for housebreaking, and sentenced to 20 years. A local newspaper reported the trial (Staffordshire Advertiser on 22nd March 1828).  In 1929 they were transported to New South Wales and I doubt either ever saw Staffordshire again.

I am trying to understand more about their family in Staffordshire; confirm who their parents were and where they lived when John and William were charged.  Unfortunately I have little further info about the family or their whereabouts.  The brothers were cabinet locksmiths before their conviction and their shipping records reported they were protestants.

I'm wondering if there might be some local information that would illuminate details about their family and location before their transportation.

Thank you for helping.

Richard

[Ruskie]

If John and William married in NSW, their marriage certificates would be a more reliable source of parent's names than their death certificates. Of course you would need to find out if that information was provided on m/cs when they married.

Have you found William's d/c to see what parent's names that gives?

[finlib10]

Hi Ruskie.  Thanks for your response.  I will refresh my efforts to find William's death certificate.  It has evaded me for a long time, but I will go back and try again.  Unfortunately William and John both were married while convicts in the early 1840s so the marriage records I have found do not include parent's names or locations.  I will attempt to see if there are church records other than the marriages indexes.  I have  been able to only find limited information on William Turner and Elizabeth Holland's life after marriage.  I'd be very interested in liaising with any other decedents of William and Elizabeth.  However, because of the dead ends here, I turned to chasing information in Tamworth and Stafford, England to see if there is information in English records about their family and circumstances.   Cheers Richard

[Ruskie]

It is possible that the parents were still alive for the 1841 census, but the problem is with the name William Turner. There are so many of them in Staffordshire.  It may be that their father was also a locksmith, which may help narrow it down a bit. 

Presumably you have collected all the information related to their convict lives, musters, pardons etc? I think that convict Indents sometimes give information about family members in the "remarks" column (I have seen this on Tasmanian Indents but unsure about NSW).

If you post a section of the writing including the difficult to decipher mother's name, we can offer our opinions as to what it might be.

Have you looked for Turner/Reilly marriage in Staffordshire? 

[finlib10]

http://Hi again Ruskie and thanks for your comments:
1.  1841 Census.  Yes a lot of William Turners.  Looking through that list again and will look for Locksmiths.
2.  NSW convict docs.  Have researched those with no real extra info.  Am going to go back through each again though just to be sure.
3.  Turner/Reilly marriage in Staffordshire.  Yes have been searching for that but no luck yet.  Maybe they married elsewhere and then moved to Staffordshire??
4.  Clarifying the Mother's name on death certificate.  I will attach the certificate once I work out how Ruski.

Cheers
Richard

[Ruskie]

I did wonder if William and Margaret may have married elsewhere, possibly even Ireland, if her surname is Reilly. Finding them on a census may help if it gave their places of birth ...
sorry, I can't think of anything else to suggest. 

[Jomot]

Is there a particular reason for believing William was born in Tamworth?   

From the newspaper article appears that William had two previous convictions, and each of his crimes seem to have been carried out in Wednesfield / Wolverhampton area. 

Also worth mentioning that John Charles is referred to simply as John.

A newspaper search is bringing up the death notice for "WILLIAM TURNER, late of Wolverhampton, in the county of Stafford, Cabinet Locksmith"  in September 1820, but when I click through to the actual newspaper I cant find it. 

[ShaunJ]

The Staffordshire Advertiser of 1 September 1827 (page 4) records that William Turner, John Turner and George Hill were committed to the county gaol for breaking into the dwelling house of William Hardwick of Tettenhall and stealing therefrom four one-pound promissory notes and a large quantity of wearing apparel.

[ShaunJ]

From the newspaper article appears that William had two previous convictions, and each of his crimes seem to have been carried out in Wednesfield / Wolverhampton area.

All of the Turners I can find in in the 1841-1861 censuses with the occupation of cabinet locksmith are in or from the Wolverhampton area. The only two I can find in 1841 are both in Wednesfield (one is a William aged 20 so this may not be helpful).