Author Topic: South African Overseas Expeditionary Force (SAOEF)  (Read 4208 times)

Offline jen5525

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 89
    • View Profile
Re: South African Overseas Expeditionary Force (SAOEF)
« Reply #18 on: Wednesday 12 July 17 13:22 BST (UK) »
UK military short form
Stewart in Kirkden, Paisley, Port Glasgow Scotland; Londonderry, Ireland; South Africa
Neilson in Paisley, Port Glasgow Scotland
Baillie in Peebles, Paisley, Edinburgh Scotland
Anderson in Angus/Forfarshire & Kincardineshire Scotland
Forbes in Kirkden Forfarshire & Kincardineshire, Scotland
Patterson/Paterson in Carmyllie & Kirkden, Forfarshire Scotland
Calhoun in Tyrone, Ireland & Jersey City, New Jersey
Mitchard in Liverpool England & New Jersey

Offline jim1

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 24,473
  • ain't life grand
    • View Profile
Re: South African Overseas Expeditionary Force (SAOEF)
« Reply #19 on: Wednesday 12 July 17 14:58 BST (UK) »
The first thing that's noticeable are the 2 addresses he gives, one in Glasgow & one in Durban.
This looks to me that he's returned to Scotland to join up. He appears to be living with his father at the time.
The SAHA HQ was at Bexhill.
So attested 27/5/1916 & taken on strength of 72 SB D Coy 26/10/16. As it says "from England" means his Bde. were in France at the time.
6/7/1919 he's transferred to C Coy S.A.C.C. (not sure what that is at present).
Just prior to that he's got himself married.
There are then periods of leave + promotions.
It's also noted he's a signaller. (visual meaning semaphore).
This is the war diary from Jan. 1916-19:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01kdz/
JustinL's book gives a good overview.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline JustinL

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,804
    • View Profile
Re: South African Overseas Expeditionary Force (SAOEF)
« Reply #20 on: Wednesday 12 July 17 15:11 BST (UK) »
Hi Jennifer,

My great-uncle's service records are very similar.

The SAHA Reserve Brigade Depot was established at Coostden Camp, east of Bexhill, in Sept. 1915.

The attestation form confirms that Frederick came to England prior to enlisting.

Is there any indication that he served in the war in German Southwest Africa in 1915?

The 72nd Siege Battery had moved to France in April 1916, so Frederick must have joined as a replacement on 26.10.16.

It looks like he was promoted to the rank of Lance Bombardier in April 1918.

E. D. Pay may have been Extra Duty pay.

I'm afraid I don't what D Company was. My great-uncle was also transferred to it in April 1919 prior to demobilisation.


Offline jim1

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 24,473
  • ain't life grand
    • View Profile
Re: South African Overseas Expeditionary Force (SAOEF)
« Reply #21 on: Wednesday 12 July 17 15:48 BST (UK) »
It may be administrative, equivalent to the British Army's Z list.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/


Offline jen5525

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 89
    • View Profile
Re: South African Overseas Expeditionary Force (SAOEF)
« Reply #22 on: Thursday 13 July 17 01:35 BST (UK) »
thank you both so very much!  very enlightening :)  And yes, it does confirm he arrived in UK prior to enlisting. so that solves the mystery of my original photo. 

a question:  what does the phrase "taken on strength" mean? 

Nice catch on the marriage...I have found the marriage certificate already but nice to see it was noted in his military record as well.

also very cool to see that there is a war diary.  the link took me to a place to download it correct?

nice to pin down that he was in France during the war.  I believe they've sent me his entire file and I don't see any dates before his enlistment in may 1916 so I don't think he was involved in the German 1915 campaign you mentioned.  but will let you know if I find anything that says otherwise. 
Again thanks so much for your help!
Jennifer
Stewart in Kirkden, Paisley, Port Glasgow Scotland; Londonderry, Ireland; South Africa
Neilson in Paisley, Port Glasgow Scotland
Baillie in Peebles, Paisley, Edinburgh Scotland
Anderson in Angus/Forfarshire & Kincardineshire Scotland
Forbes in Kirkden Forfarshire & Kincardineshire, Scotland
Patterson/Paterson in Carmyllie & Kirkden, Forfarshire Scotland
Calhoun in Tyrone, Ireland & Jersey City, New Jersey
Mitchard in Liverpool England & New Jersey

Offline jim1

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 24,473
  • ain't life grand
    • View Profile
Re: South African Overseas Expeditionary Force (SAOEF)
« Reply #23 on: Thursday 13 July 17 10:51 BST (UK) »
Apologies for the jargon. Taken on strength means he officially became part of 72 Bde. so on their pay list.
Pretty much on that date he would have been shipped out to join his Bde. Unlike British service records it doesn't give a date of departure.
The diary is unlikely to mention your man by name but may refer to an intake of replacements on or about that date so wherever they were on 26/10/16 is where he would have gone.
It will probably give you map references so if you want to know exactly where he was at any given time you can view/download the battlefront maps from here. These are FOC & kindly provided by the National Library of Scotland:
http://maps.nls.uk/geo/find/#zoom=8&lat=50.0508&lon=2.8399&layers=60&b=1&point=0,0
To understand it all:
http://www.westernfrontassociation.com/attachments/article/590/How_to_read_a_Trenchmap-rev5.pdf
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline JustinL

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,804
    • View Profile
Re: South African Overseas Expeditionary Force (SAOEF)
« Reply #24 on: Thursday 13 July 17 10:56 BST (UK) »
Jennifer,

The war diary that Jim's link takes you to is that of the 50th (South African) Brigade of the Royal Garrison Artillery. The only war diary of the 72nd itself is for Dec. 1917
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=WO+95%2F225%2F6

Brigades (known as Heavy Artillery Groups until Dec. 1917) were higher level units comprising a number of batteries. The 72nd SB was not allocated to the 50th Brigade until December 1917. Prior to that, the battery would have been allocated to numerous other brigades/HAGs.

The locations of the battery are reported in Buchanan's book as follows:

The 72nd Battery landed in France on April 21, 1916, under the command of Major C. W. Alston. Its first position was at Mailly-Maillet, where with a very short allowance of ammunition it entered upon its field experience. It was sent to Ypres on 3rd June along with the 71st to assist the Canadians, where it had some hard fighting, Major Alston being severely wounded, and Captain A. G. Mullins taking over the command. Returning to Mailly, it took part in the opening days of the First Somme, and then moved first to Englebelmer, and then to Authuille. This last was an excellent position, with a steep bank in front of the guns and the Ancre in the rear. The Battery remained there for eight months, until the retirement of the enemy enabled it to advance to Thiepval and Grandcourt.

On March 22, 1917, it moved to the Arras neighbourhood, taking up ground near Berthonval Wood, a few miles east of Mont St. Eloi. From this position the Battery shared in the battle for Vimy, after the fall of which it moved forward to Souchez, under the northern end of the ridge. On 30th April it retired to Houdain for its first spell of rest since it arrived in France. On 12th May it was at Thélus, and four days later it was transferred to the 1st Canadian Heavy Artillery Group, and took up position at Zouave valley, near Givenchy, in the Vimy area. There it remained for three months, supporting the Canadian attack at Lens.

On 25th October the Battery went north with the Canadian Corps to Ypres, where it relieved the 73rd (S.A.) Siege Battery in a peculiarly unhealthy spot between Zillebeke and Observatory Ridge. There, during the first twenty-four hours, it had twelve casualties. On 17th October the command was taken over by Captain C. P. Ward. On January 11, 1918, after a period of rest, the Battery took up position behind the Damm Strasse, near Wytschaete. It was now brigaded with the 50th (S.A.) Brigade.


'Taken on strength' is just military terminology for 'joined the unit'.

Justin



Offline jim1

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 24,473
  • ain't life grand
    • View Profile
Re: South African Overseas Expeditionary Force (SAOEF)
« Reply #25 on: Thursday 13 July 17 11:01 BST (UK) »
Good point about the re-organisation always a problem with RA.
As they were with the Canadian Corps during the intervening period they may also appear in their diary. This was the case with attached British Bty's.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline JustinL

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,804
    • View Profile
Re: South African Overseas Expeditionary Force (SAOEF)
« Reply #26 on: Thursday 13 July 17 11:58 BST (UK) »
Buchan wrote the following about the 50th brigade:

This Brigade was formed during January 1918, under the command of Lieutenant-Colonel W. H. L. Tripp, D.S.O., M.C., formerly of the 75th Battery. On 28th January it was attached to the Australian Corps, occupying positions between Zillebeke and Wytschaete. On 26th February it went into General Headquarters Reserve, being encamped near Bailleul. On 6th March the 496th (S.A.) Siege Battery arrived, and was split up between the 72nd and 74th Batteries, making these six-gun batteries. On 10th March the Brigade was ordered to prepare positions behind the Portuguese divisions, but the orders were cancelled. On 13th March it was attached to Sir H. Plumer's Second Army. On the 24th, after the great German attack had been launched at St. Quentin, it began to move southwards, and on the 28th was at Neuville St. Vaast during the German assault on Arras. On the 30th it was attached to the Canadian Corps.

During April the batteries were in position at Roclincourt, to the north-east of Arras, and settled down to the familiar type of trench warfare. Since the whole military situation was uncertain at the moment, much time had to be spent on the preparation of reserve battery positions. Five series were selected, varying from three to fifteen miles behind those in use. On 1st May the Brigade was ordered north, the 72nd and 74th Batteries joining the I. Corps near Mazingarbe, and the others going to the XIII. Corps, in the vicinity of Hinges. By the 3rd these orders were changed, and the whole Brigade was sent to Arras to the XVII. Corps. There it remained till the end of August, engaged in normal trench warfare. On 7th August Captain E. G. Ridley, M.C., was promoted major in command of the 74th Battery, to replace Major Bennett, who had gone to command the 44th Brigade.

On 26th August the Brigade supported the advance of the Canadian Corps and the 51st Division, which resulted in the capture of Monchy. The batteries now began to move forward along the Arras-Cambrai road, where they were engaged in cutting the wire of the Drocourt-Quéant switch. On 1st September the medical officer of the Brigade, Captain G. R. Cowie, was seriously wounded, and died two days later. On the 2nd the Canadians carried the Drocourt-Quéant switch, all the guns in the Brigade assisting in the preliminary bombardment and the subsequent barrage. Next day the Brigade passed under the XXII. Corps, which held the line of the Sensée, in order to protect the flank of the Canadian thrust towards Cambrai. No serious operations took place for more than three weeks; but on the 27th came the great advance of the Canadian and XVII. Corps towards and beyond Cambrai, and it became clear that a general enemy retirement was a matter of days. On 3rd October Major Ridley left for England to form a new 8-inch S.A. battery, and his place in command of the 74th was taken by Major C. J. Forder. On the 11th the Brigade came under the Canadian Corps.

On the 12th the batteries advanced, first to Tortequesne, and then to Estrées and Noyelle. On the 19th they were at Lewarde. On the 20th a section of the 74th Battery moved to Wallers to support the Canadian attack. This was the last engagement of the Brigade in the War, for on the 24th it was placed in army reserve, and remained there till the armistice on 11th November.