Horace Thomas Vincent Merchant Navy, WW2

[Nanna52]

I am trying to find out more information about my cousins service in the merchant navy during World War 2.
His name was Horace Thomas Mabley Vincent. ( Mostly he just  used Horace Thomas Vincent).
He was born in Redruth, Cornwall  December 19, 1888.
I found a record of medals awarded and he has AT and 1939 circled and WM added.
I believe his number is 739996 

Can you guide me where to look for further information about his service.   Thank you in advance.

[nanny jan]

From the National Archives:

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/merchant-seaman-serving-after-1917/

Hope that helps.

[Nanna52]

Thanks Nanny Jan I will investigate the suggestions from the research guides.

[seaweed]

It appears that he has no "seaman's pouch" in the series BT372 This is not unusual as many were destroyed in the 1950's. A shame as these usually contain a mugshot photograph.
The record you really want is his form CRS10 which will tell you the ships he served on from early 1941  together with dates and places of engagement and discharge. These records are stored alphabetically in blocks of 60 names. If any where it should be here.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C10990077
You would be best served visiting Kew yourself.

That said he has two records from the Fourth register of Merchant Seamen 1918-1941 on FindMyPast. One from 1919, including a photograph, when he signed on the Liverpool registered ship INKULA official number 109335 ( This vessel was the former Italian steamer PALLANZA) as 3rd Engineer.
There is then a big gap in his records, why I don't know, when he signed on as 2nd Engineer on the London registered steamship HARTISMERE o/n 163309, in March 1938.
The 1938 Crew agreements of HARTISMERE are lodged with The Maritime History Archive in Newfoundland.
https://www.mun.ca/mha/holdings/viewcombinedcrews.php?Official_No=163309

If you can get hold of this then it should tell you his previous ship and in this way you can then back track via crew agreements to find the names of all of his vessels back from 1938 to 1919 and maybe even further back than that. Be aware he could have left the sea between these dates

I note he has an Engineers Certificate of Competency. Certificate number 55641. Perhaps if you do go to Kew you could also try and find this, or better still his Certificate of Service.

Oop's. Just noticed you live in Australia so getting to Kew would be a problem. If you can wait a week or three, I will try and get hold of his CRS 10 for you. Just PM me in a couple of weeks to jog the memory.

[Nanna52]

Thank you Seawood that is a very kind offer.  I have only known of his existence for a couple of years, so waiting a couple of weeks is fine.
So that you are not wasting your time this is what I have found out.
WW1  joined RN 19 Jan 1916.
19 Jan 1916 to 6 Mar 1916  Pembroke II
7 Mar 1916 to 27 Aug 1918 Clio
28 Aug 1918 to 25 Feb 1919 Pembroke II

He had joined the army 30 Sept 1914 and stayed there until he transferred to the navy.    He had also done an apprenticeship with Earle's Engineering Co, I presume around the Hull area.

I have found him and his wife Kathleen, nee Fox, in Western Australia in the twenties and thirties.  He returned to England in 1934 ( Nov 8 th on the .Barradine).   They returned to live in Hull.

[Nanna52]

I knew I had seen their arrival in Australia, earlier than I thought, January 1921 on the Zealandic.  Writing is a bit awkward so I can't decipher what his occupation was.

[seaweed]

OK. The time he spent in WA would explain the gap in his British MN record. For the period 1938-1941 this information would have been contained in his Seaman's pouch.
Regarding his WW1 Royal Navy records. Maybe one of the RN experts can give you a detailed appraisal of his service but as far as I know, PEMBROKE II was a shore establishment on the Isle of Sheppey and CLIO was a training base at Bangor North Wales.

Will be in touch.

[Nanna52]

Thank you Seawood.

[seaweed]

Found the CRS 10 of Horace Thomas Vincent.
From the 10/Sept 1941 until 13/May/1948 he served in various Engineering ranks on the ship MACCLESFIELD official number 136014.
http://www.tynebuiltships.co.uk/M-Ships/macclesfield1914.html
From the 15/May/1948 until 28/Dec/1948 He was second engineer on the vessel SELBY O/N 146505
http://www.aberdeenships.com/single.asp?searchFor=selby&index=99913

Horace Thomas Vincent Left the Merchant Navy in 1949. His CRS 56 (Transfer of a seaman to national registration and civil rationing) was issued at his own request in Hull on 25/June/1949. This was verified 6/July/1949

I don't know as yet what the wartime roles of these ship's. TNA took ages to copy the CRS10 and I did not have time to look at their logbooks and crew agreements.
You can however download their movement cards which will give you a fairly good understanding of their wartime service.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=macclesfield&discoveryCustomSearch=true&_cr1=BT+389&_col=200&_dt=SS&_hb=tna

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=selby&discoveryCustomSearch=true&_cr1=BT+389&_col=200&_dt=SS&_hb=tna

If you want copies of the CRS10. Send a PM with your postal address and I will post them to you. They are too large to send by e-mail.

SW