Author Topic: Your Blacksheep-Do they amuse you?  (Read 14179 times)

Offline coombs

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Re: Your Blacksheep-Do they amuse you?
« Reply #72 on: Wednesday 11 January 23 22:29 GMT (UK) »
My black sheep great great grandfather really troubles me.

His wife obtained a judicial separation from him in 1907 (a very rare and unusual thing for someone of their standing in those days) and the case caused such a sensation that it was reported extensively in the local newspapers. The evidence puts a lot of (unpleasant) flesh on the bare bones of the man.

What troubles me, though, is that her evidence to the magistrates includes that "there was a certain matter that he said, if she ever mentioned it to anyone he woudl cut her throat". Charming.

But what WAS that matter?

Fast forward 4 years, the 1911 census. He is living in a boarding house, and reports "one living child". (We KNOW he had one who died in infancy too ... but you can imagine the boarding house keeper saying "hey, William, how many children you got?" and he said "one", so that's what the boarding house keeper put on teh census return.)

HOWEVER ... my great great grandmother was living with the one child still living (my great grandfather). And the census return which HE signed said that she had THREE children  still living, one dead.

I have birth and death certificates for my great grandfather and the child who died in infancy ... but the registers contain NOTHING about the other two. So I'm guessing that as soon as they were born my great great grandfather (who was in and out of work due to his drinking, and surely couldn't afford to support four children) took them and left them at teh workhouse door. Or rather ... that's what he SAID he was doing with them.

But did he??

I've got this uneasy suspicion that this was the "matter" referred to in the 1907 court case; and that whilst this is what he told his wife he was doing, it's not what he ACTUALLY did. Because why would giving up children he couldn't afford to support for adoption be SO terrible that he would threaten to cut her throat if she so much as mentioned it?

At the time, though, he was working as coachman and gardener at a rather grand house, and they were living at the lodge.

As gardener he'd have access to burial tools, and to parts of the grounds that nobody but he would ever have reason to dig in.

And I strongly suspect that somewhere in the grounds of that grand house, there are two shallow graves containing the remains of two newborn infants ...

Quite a story. My ancestor Richard Richardson was from Essex. He was in and out of prison a lot, today he would have been given his own parking space.  ;)
Researching:

LONDON, Coombs, Roberts, Auber, Helsdon, Fradine, Morin, Goodacre
DORSET Coombs, Munday
NORFOLK Helsdon, Riches, Harbord, Budery
KENT Roberts, Goodacre
SUSSEX Walder, Boniface, Dinnage, Standen, Lee, Botten, Wickham, Jupp
SUFFOLK Titshall, Frost, Fairweather, Mayhew, Archer, Eade, Scarfe
DURHAM Stewart, Musgrave, Wilson, Forster
SCOTLAND Stewart in Selkirk
USA Musgrave, Saix
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OXON Edgington, Smith, Inkpen, Snell, Batten, Brain

Offline Kiltpin

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Re: Your Blacksheep-Do they amuse you?
« Reply #73 on: Thursday 12 January 23 11:03 GMT (UK) »
This is quite a long story, but I shall attempt to shorten it. 

The backstory - 

My relatives had lived in the British community in India for about 200 years. Unlike most Brits there, they were poor and usually had to take whatever work they could get. Although living in Bombay, my (I will call him uncle) got a job as warder at Madras Central Prison - some 800+ miles away. 

The Central Prison housed some of the most violent prisoners in the whole of India. Warders always moved about the prison in a "unit" of 4 men. All were armed with a billy club (18"-24", teak, with brass cap and bands, handcuffed to their wrist). 

1st - dealt with the prisoner,
2nd - guarded the 1st,
3rd - had the keys,
4th - guarded the 3rd. 

The incident - 

An incident/murder was happening in one of the larger cells. My uncle's unit was sent to deal. The incident was in fact staged, so that the prisoners could attack the warders in an enclosed space. My uncle was a 2nd. Upon entering the cell, the most notorious and violent prisoner attacked 1st. The prisoners tear and shred their own cloths down to individual strands to re-make them into ropes, which they use as a garrotte. Within a moment, the prisoner had the garrotte round 1st's neck and was starting to strangle him. 
My uncle struck the prisoner on the head and stopped the attack. The blow was probably fatal, but we will never know. One blow, as a defence, was legal and standard practice. Unfortunately, the red mist came down, and my uncle did not stop. He beat the prisoner's head to a pulp. 
There was an official enquiry and in spite of glowing tributes from all colleagues and superior officers, my uncle was sentenced to life imprisonment. 

The middle bit -   

In the normal course of events, that would have been the end of the story, but Hitler invaded Poland and the Empire needed soldiers. My uncle was offered "wartime parole". As soon as hostilities ceased, he was to report back to prison. A parole board would then adjudicate as to how much time might be allowed off his sentence for war service. 
My uncle was a natural leader and rose to sergeant within months. He was being considered for a field commission when the war ended. He was in Bombay, from where the troop transports were leaving for England. He found a sergeant of his size from an English regiment, got him drunk, exchanged uniform jackets, stole his ID and at the last minute got on board the ship. During the journey, he organized daily keep fit, quizzes, a choir, impromptu entertainments, juggling lessons, handwriting improvement, readings from the classics (and debate afterwards). Suffice to say, the troops were kept busy! 
They landed in Southampton and troop train to Birmingham. Discharged, with the wrong name, but a free man. 

The aftermath - 

After all the troops were gone, he was left in the station, in a country he had never been, with only a few pence to his name. He went to the tea kiosk and spoke to the young lady. They were married two months later. Went to work at Dunlop and retired as Senior Foreman. She died just after their 50th anniversary. He changed his name by deed poll back to his birth name before his marriage. He still had his army pay book in his real name.   

If I had not been told by my mother, I would never have found all this out. 

Regards 

Chas
Whannell - Eaton - Jackson
India - Scotland - Australia

Offline jbml

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Re: Your Blacksheep-Do they amuse you?
« Reply #74 on: Thursday 12 January 23 14:37 GMT (UK) »
That's quite some story, kiltpin.

Have you managed to obtain any documents that corrobrate it all?
All identified names up to and including my great x5 grandparents: Abbot Andrews Baker Blenc(h)ow Brothers Burrows Chambers Clifton Cornwell Escott Fisher Foster Frost Giddins Groom Hardwick Harris Hart Hayho(e) Herman Holcomb(e) Holmes Hurley King-Spooner Martindale Mason Mitchell Murphy Neves Oakey Packman Palmer Peabody Pearce Pettit(t) Piper Pottenger Pound Purkis Rackliff(e) Richardson Scotford Sherman Sinden Snear Southam Spooner Stephenson Varing Weatherley Webb Whitney Wiles Wright

Offline Kiltpin

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Re: Your Blacksheep-Do they amuse you?
« Reply #75 on: Thursday 12 January 23 17:56 GMT (UK) »
I have seen his birth entry, Madras prison service new warder general instructions card, his army ID and pay book, marriage certificate where his name is his birth name and "Formerly  Xxxx Xxxx" and finally his death certificate in his own name. His eldest son has/had the other Sergeants pay book - just the cover in the name of Xxxx Xxxx. 

He and my mother were very, very close - they were the only churchgoers in the family, they did a daily crossword together. When he was in prison, she wrote letters to him almost daily. I truly cannot see her lying to me about something that had happened 60 years before.   

Regards 

Chas
Whannell - Eaton - Jackson
India - Scotland - Australia


Offline jbml

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Re: Your Blacksheep-Do they amuse you?
« Reply #76 on: Thursday 12 January 23 20:50 GMT (UK) »
That sounds like pretty solid corroboration to me.
All identified names up to and including my great x5 grandparents: Abbot Andrews Baker Blenc(h)ow Brothers Burrows Chambers Clifton Cornwell Escott Fisher Foster Frost Giddins Groom Hardwick Harris Hart Hayho(e) Herman Holcomb(e) Holmes Hurley King-Spooner Martindale Mason Mitchell Murphy Neves Oakey Packman Palmer Peabody Pearce Pettit(t) Piper Pottenger Pound Purkis Rackliff(e) Richardson Scotford Sherman Sinden Snear Southam Spooner Stephenson Varing Weatherley Webb Whitney Wiles Wright

Offline Davedrave

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Re: Your Blacksheep-Do they amuse you?
« Reply #77 on: Thursday 12 January 23 21:00 GMT (UK) »
All of my ancestors whose misdemeanours I know of committed their offences in the 1830’s and 1840’s. In Chelmsford, William Sayers stole a lot of sheep fleeces from his employer and the reports of his ludicrous behaviour afterwards are pretty amusing (hiding soaking wet trousers in a box under his bed, for example, which left a tell-tale pool across the floor).

In Leicester William Jarvis and his family sound like the neighbours from hell and apparently came up before the bench about once a month. I don’t think I’d like to meet them. Their exploits included kicking a harmless neighbour’s fireplace in because he’d “wrong poisoned” them and inciting a dog (not theirs) to bite one of the policemen severely, then escaping naked down the street, and (on a different occasion) drunkenly disturbing the local chapel congregation. A ten year old Jarvis, who was clearly concealed after hours in the factory he worked at to admit a thief, was let off despite his cock and bull explanation.

A Jarvis married a Hunt. The Hunts don’t seem to have been violent, and the cheeky repartee of William Hunt, charged with  neglecting his family, is pretty amusing, as is the way his son was found hiding in bed (abetted by his mother) when apprehended for a theft.
ESSEX: Cramphorn Raven Sams Sayers Taylor; GLOS: Beacham/Beauchamp; HERTS: Chamberlain Chuck; LEICS: Allot Bentley Godfrey Greasley Hunt Hurst Jarvis Lane Lea Light Woodward; LINCS: Lambert Mitchell Muse ; STAFFS: Hodgkins Jarvis; SURREY: Light; WARKS: Astley/Chesshire Bradbury Hicken/Hickin Hudson; WORCS: Ballinger Beauchamp Laight

Offline Biggles50

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Re: Your Blacksheep-Do they amuse you?
« Reply #78 on: Thursday 12 January 23 22:08 GMT (UK) »
Great Great Great Uncle

In and out of Jail in his teens.

Convicted of Burglary, sentenced to Death, commuted

On release committed a crime, back inside for 18 months

In court again for Highway Robbery, guilty, sentenced to Death, commuted to Transportation to Australia.  After six years Pardoned, conditionally.

Stayed in Australia where he found himself in Court another 15 times before he died in the 1890’s.

Offline Redroger

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Re: Your Blacksheep-Do they amuse you?
« Reply #79 on: Sunday 15 January 23 17:39 GMT (UK) »
Sounds very similar to my great great uncle who was convicted of Highway robbery in 1832, and was sentenced to death commuted to life transportation. Interestingly he got married the day after the robbery, but I have found no children. His wife had two with a new partner some years later, who took our surname, but cannot be his!(150 years before sperm freezing!!
It was government policy to commute capital sentences on people guilty of capital offences when no violence was used. One way of populating the colonies with fit young males I suppose.
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