France: Anne L'Homme, born Echiselle

[davidqueneherve]

I think there's a couple of other Desrats marriages earlier, too - though I could perhaps have read things incorrectly:

1604: Gernais ?? Pezze married Anne Desrats, fille de Nicolas Desrats et de Catrin Fromond (p3)

1610: Martin VOISIN married Elizabet Desrats, fille de Nicolas Desrats et de Catrin Fromond (p8)

...could possibly be sisters (or maybe cousins) of Pierre and Daniel Desrats?

Gervais PEZZE, son of the late Pierre PEZZE and Marguerite CHASSAING, and ANNE DES RATS, daughter of Nicolas DES RATS and Caterine FREMOND (not sure for the last letters but in 1610 it's FREMOND) 18/JUL/1604

Yes, I think they are relatives because Pierre DESRATS is a cousin once removed of François PEZZE, son of Paul PEZZE 

http://www.archives28.fr/arkotheque/visionneuse/visionneuse.php?arko=YTo2OntzOjQ6ImRhdGUiO3M6MTA6IjIwMTctMDgtMzEiO3M6MTA6InR5cGVfZm9uZHMiO3M6MTE6ImFya29fc2VyaWVsIjtzOjQ6InJlZjEiO2k6MjtzOjQ6InJlZjIiO2k6MTA3Mjg7czoxNjoidmlzaW9ubmV1c2VfaHRtbCI7YjoxO3M6MjE6InZpc2lvbm5ldXNlX2h0bWxfbW9kZSI7czo0OiJwcm9kIjt9#uielem_move=-824%2C-824&uielem_islocked=0&uielem_zoom=146&uielem_brightness=0&uielem_contrast=0&uielem_isinverted=0&uielem_rotate=F

Frame 2

Baptism (26/FEB/1668) and burial (26/MAR/1668)

Pierre DES RATS cousin paternel issu de germain, marchand

Pierre DESRATS and Paul PEZZE are first cousins.

[davidqueneherve]

http://abpo.revues.org/827?file=1

ABSTRACT
The protestant community of Authon-du-Perche, near Chartres, appears in our
sources in 1598, with a minister’s arrival. The Church holds until the Revocation
of the Edict of Nantes – in 1685 – and we principally know its life by its register of
births, marriages and deaths and its deeds. We find a majority of rich and middle-
class population, who quickly acquired good religious knowledge and new habits,
that means a real adherence to the new religion. The Calvinists are a minority
within the village. Nevertheless, the catholic records emphasize the good rela-
tionships between members of the two communities, the bonds which unite them
and the efforts made to limit tensions. However, in the end of the century, relations
between the communities deteriorate because of Louis XIV’s political choices : he
wants to eradicate protestant people of his kingdom. So, the Calvinist community
withdraws into itself, without disappearing totally yet.

[JenNZL]

I think there's a couple of other Desrats marriages earlier, too - though I could perhaps have read things incorrectly:

1604: Gernais ?? Pezze married Anne Desrats, fille de Nicolas Desrats et de Catrin Fromond (p3)

1610: Martin VOISIN married Elizabet Desrats, fille de Nicolas Desrats et de Catrin Fromond (p8)

...could possibly be sisters (or maybe cousins) of Pierre and Daniel Desrats?

Gervais PEZZE, son of the late Pierre PEZZE and Marguerite CHASSAING, and ANNE DES RATS, daughter of Nicolas DES RATS and Caterine FREMOND (not sure for the last letters but in 1610 it's FREMOND) 18/JUL/1604

Yes, I think they are relatives because Pierre DESRATS is a cousin once removed of François PEZZE, son of Paul PEZE 

http://www.archives28.fr/arkotheque/visionneuse/visionneuse.php?arko=YTo2OntzOjQ6ImRhdGUiO3M6MTA6IjIwMTctMDgtMzEiO3M6MTA6InR5cGVfZm9uZHMiO3M6MTE6ImFya29fc2VyaWVsIjtzOjQ6InJlZjEiO2k6MjtzOjQ6InJlZjIiO2k6MTA3Mjg7czoxNjoidmlzaW9ubmV1c2VfaHRtbCI7YjoxO3M6MjE6InZpc2lvbm5ldXNlX2h0bWxfbW9kZSI7czo0OiJwcm9kIjt9#uielem_move=-824%2C-824&uielem_islocked=0&uielem_zoom=146&uielem_brightness=0&uielem_contrast=0&uielem_isinverted=0&uielem_rotate=F

Frame 2

Baptism (26/FEB/1668) and burial (26/MAR/1668)

Pierre DES RATS cousin paternel issu de germain, marchand

Pierre DESRATS and Paul PEZZE are first cousins.

I'm getting a bit confused with the generations here...Pierre des Rats, husband of Judith Menou and father of Pierre et Judith des Rats, had a sister who married a Pezze, and had a son, Paul, is that right? Pierre, father of Marie (marraine at the baptism of Francois) is therefore the cousin of Paul (and Paul, in turn, is the son of Germain). Can we presume that Germain / Gervais could be the same person? If I can find the baptism of Paul, and link him to Anne Des Rats and Gervais Pezze, we would know that Pierre (husband of Judith Menou) was brother to Anne, and would therefore be able to take our des Rats line back one more generation to Nicolas des Rats and Caterine Fremond.

In other words, is there yet enough evidence to suggest it could look like this:

Nicolas des Rats et Caterine Fremond have:

Anne
Elizabet
?? Pierre
?? Daniel

Anne marries Gervais Pezze in 1604 (and have a son, Paul)
Elizabet marries Martin Voisin in 1608
?? Pierre marries Judith menou in 1613 (and have a son Pierre, and daughter Judith)
?? Daniel marries Anne Haquin in 1614


Or have I got it all in a tangle?

I'll have a hunt for the baptism of Paul and see who his parents were.

Thanks again for your all your help on this :-)

Jenni

[JenNZL]

No luck finding the baptism of Paul Pezze to see if there's a link as above, but I've found a few more children of Judit Menou and Pierre des Rats:

p 15: Pierre (who we knew already, can't remember if baptism already linked to?) b 1617 (I think)  parrain Josue Menou, marraine Judit des Rats

p 16:  Anne, b c. 1619 (very hard to read) parrain Jacques Brunet, marraine ?? (Jacques Brunet is married to Susanne Menou)

p 17: b. 1621 Ester (who we already knew about) Parrain is ?? Pezze, marraine Ester des Rats

p19: b. 1624 ?? Suzanne. parrain Paul Menou, marraine

p 21: b. 1626 Marie (who we already knew about) parrain Jacques Menou, marraine Marie

p 22: b. 1628 Josue parrain Jacques de galloy marrain Renee


Also... I'm on page 31 of 68 (around 1640) and there are no L'Homme family members mentioned. I wonder if they perhaps came from elsewhere, and Claude senior is the first one to come here?

 

[davidqueneherve]

http://abpo.revues.org/827?file=1

En revanche, Ambroise Pezze et Madeleine
Germond alternent entre baptêmes selon l’ordonnance catholique et bap-
têmes protestants : Gervais, né en 1598, Madeleine, née en 1599, Marie,
née en 1606, Antoine, né en 1613 et Ambroise, né en 1617, sont baptisés
à l’église, alors que Paul, né en 1609, Jacques, né en 1611 et Jean, né en
1614, sont baptisés au temple. Aucun ordre ne semble pouvoir se déga-
ger de leurs choix. Toutefois, l’éducation maternelle prévalant et influen-
çant souvent les enfants, à l’âge adulte, Jacques Pezze, bien que baptisé
protestant, choisit la religion catholique.

[joger]

Cousin paternel issu de germain means : boy or man son of the father's cousin.
For you a " cousin germain" is a nephew of your father or your mother, a " cousine germaine" is a niece of your father or mother.

[joger]

I found no L'homme or Delhomme from 1598 to Claude L'homme and Judith Desrats, I also think that they came from elsewhere

[JenNZL]

Cousin paternel issu de germain means : boy or man son of the father's cousin.
For you a " cousin germain" is a nephew of your father or your mother, a " cousine germaine" is a niece of your father or mother.

Ha! oops....I shouldn't have trusted Google translate ;-)  Thanks!

[davidqueneherve]

Cousin paternel issu de germain means : boy or man son of the father's cousin.
For you a " cousin germain" is a nephew of your father or your mother, a " cousine germaine" is a niece of your father or mother.

Ha! oops....I shouldn't have trusted Google translate ;-)  Thanks!

First cousin = cousin germain
Cousin once removed = cousin issu de germain ou cousin au deuxième degré