Author Topic: Roberts family,Rushall. Mill Street.  (Read 2232 times)

Offline seekernz

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Roberts family,Rushall. Mill Street.
« on: Monday 17 April 17 12:27 BST (UK) »
Im trying to trace the paternal line Of one John Roberts, publican of Royal Exchange, Mill St.
John Roberts Head M 39 Walsall, Staffordshire, England Smith & Publican
Frances Roberts Wife F 36 Walsall, Staffordshire, England.
Ive census records aplenty for this descendants of this fellow but Im struggling to get his Dad and grandad straight. too many johns in the line!

Ive tentatively got John born abt 1820 and wed with Rebecca Thornhill.
My Gran was wed to his grandson and Im getting thrown off track in my searches.
 Love to hear from anyone related to this coot who might be able to lift the veil.
Shields/Hogan.Mangawhai
Stanley/Roberts/Larkham-Larkkom-Larkkon-Larkom. of staffordshire/Warwickshire.

Offline rosie99

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Re: Roberts family,Rushall. Mill Street.
« Reply #1 on: Monday 17 April 17 12:41 BST (UK) »
What information does the Dec qtr 1862 marriage between John Roberts and Frances Parker give regarding John's father.  Who were the witnesses

ADDED What was Johns occupation when he married
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Offline seekernz

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Re: Roberts family,Rushall. Mill Street.
« Reply #2 on: Monday 17 April 17 12:53 BST (UK) »
 This I have:
John Roberts marriage registered Dec qtr 1862 Walsall RD ref 6b 844
Other names on the page:
Bridget Judge
Frances Parker
John Roberts
Peter Scully
Shields/Hogan.Mangawhai
Stanley/Roberts/Larkham-Larkkom-Larkkon-Larkom. of staffordshire/Warwickshire.

Offline rosie99

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Re: Roberts family,Rushall. Mill Street.
« Reply #3 on: Monday 17 April 17 13:00 BST (UK) »
That is just the registration details.  The marriage certificate should show his fathers details though if he was illegitimate it probably will not.

You say you have census details 1871 has him as age 29 born Walsall occupation Saddle Tree riveter where do you have him prior to this
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Offline rosie99

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Re: Roberts family,Rushall. Mill Street.
« Reply #4 on: Monday 17 April 17 13:17 BST (UK) »
Ive tentatively got John born abt 1820 and wed with Rebecca Thornhill.


In case it is the right parents 
Wednesbury - St Bartholomew
Marriage    20 Nov 1837
John ROBERTS of full age of Walsall, awl blade maker m
John's father was Thomas ROBERTS (Labourer)
Rebecca's father was Thomas THORNHILL (Buckle maker)
Witnesses   Richard HORTON & Mary ROBERTS

The John Roberts birth registered in 1842 Walsall appears to be the only Roberts birth mmn Thornhill
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Offline seekernz

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Re: Roberts family,Rushall. Mill Street.
« Reply #5 on: Monday 17 April 17 13:34 BST (UK) »
I have this oddity that leaves me fuddled:
1861 Census
Piece: RG9/2015/112 p 11
Court Stafford St
Walsall

Simeon VAUGHAN  Head 52 Smith b  Willenhall Staffordshire
Mary VAUGHAN  Wife 48  b Walsall Staffordshire
Emma VAUGHAN  Dau 22 General Serv b  Walsall Staffordshire
 Eliza VAUGHAN Dau 20 Buckle Stitcher b Walsall Staffordshire
Harriet VAUGHAN Dau 17 Buckle Stitcher  b Walsall Staffordshire
John VAUGHAN Son 14 At School b  Walsall Staffordshire
Charles VAUGHAN  Son 10 b Walsall Staffordshire
Thomas VAUGHAN  Son M 3 b  Walsall Staffordshire
James SUMMERS Lodger Wid 69 Snaffle Bit Maker b  Walsall Staffordshire
James SUMMERS Lodger 42 Lock Smith b Walsall Staffordshire
John ROBERTS  App 19 b  Bloxwich Staffordshire

Still in Vaughan Family home.... but listed as "Son"???

1851 Census  HO107/2023/219 p 28

Simeon Vaughan Head M 42 Walsall, Staffordshire
Mary Vaughan Wife F 34 Walsall, Staffordshire
Emma Vaughan Daughter F 12 Walsall, Staffordshire
Eliza Vaughan Daughter F 10 Walsall, Staffordshire
Harriot Vaughan Daughter F 8 Walsall, Staffordshire
John Vaughan Son M 6 Walsall, Staffordshire
Charles Vaughan Son M 0 Walsall, Staffordshire
James Simmon Lodger M 60 Walsall, Staffordshire
James Simmon Lodger M 32 Walsall, Staffordshire
John Roberts Son M 9 Walsall, Staffordshire

1841 census
Stafford Street  Walsall, Staffordshire
Simeon Vaugn M 25-29 Staffordshire
Mary Vaugn F 20-24 Staffordshire
Emma Vaugn F 2 Staffordshire
Eliza Vaugn F 4 Staffordshire

HO107/2023/219 p 28

Simeon Vaughan   42
Mary Vaughan   34
Ema Vaughan   12
Eliza Vaughan   10
Harriet Vaughan   8
John Vaughan   6
Charles Vaughan   8 Mo
James Linman   60
James Linman   32
John Roberts   9
 I know not what to make of it.
Shields/Hogan.Mangawhai
Stanley/Roberts/Larkham-Larkkom-Larkkon-Larkom. of staffordshire/Warwickshire.

Offline rosie99

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Re: Roberts family,Rushall. Mill Street.
« Reply #6 on: Monday 17 April 17 13:52 BST (UK) »
I saw those entries which are quite likely him though we have no proof.  He has clearly been 'taken in' by this family. There is a also a good chance that he names Simeon as his father on his marriage as he probably brought him up but is no relation.  You really need the certificate to see who he names as his father.

Have you found John Roberts & Rebecca (Thornhill) on 1841 census
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Offline seekernz

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Re: Roberts family,Rushall. Mill Street.
« Reply #7 on: Monday 17 April 17 14:02 BST (UK) »
Rebekah Roberts
Cock Heath, Wednesbury
Registration Number HO107/984/11 p 15

John Roberts M 35-39 Staffordshire
Rebekah Roberts F 30-34 Staffordshire
Elizebeth Roberts F 2 Staffordshire
Jane Roberts F 1 Staffordshire

1851 HO107/2023/218 p 27 Stafford Street
 Rebecca Roberts 37 Widow Charwoman b Walsall, Staffordshire

So is he dead or astray now?

Rebecca Roberts Head F 37 Walsall, Staffordshire
Jane Roberts Daughter F 12 Wednesbury, Staffordshire
Elizt Roberts Daughter F 10 Wednesbury, Staffordshire
Fanny Roberts Daughter F 0 Walsall, Staffordshire
Shields/Hogan.Mangawhai
Stanley/Roberts/Larkham-Larkkom-Larkkon-Larkom. of staffordshire/Warwickshire.

Offline rosie99

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Re: Roberts family,Rushall. Mill Street.
« Reply #8 on: Monday 17 April 17 15:30 BST (UK) »
Still in Vaughan Family home.... but listed as "Son"???

1851 has him listed as Servt (Servant)  1861 Ap (Apprentice)

Baptism of a John to John & Rebecca in 1842 Walsall gives abode as Bloxwich which matches 1861 census.

If it was my family tree I would be purchasing the marriage certificate of John & Frances - many trees have been wrongly built on suppositions. If you are happy to accept John & Rebecca are his parents that is your choice  ;D

Rosie
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk